54 thoughts on “Was Hitler a Christian?

      1. Oooh, tsk, tsk. Ad Hom, Martha? Naughty!

        Sorry, my Irony Meter is broken. Freudian slip? I am afraid you will have to explain.

    1. Now now Arkenaten! That wasn’t Ad Hom – it was reverse psychology! I was genuinely trying to get you to self-reflect as to your Freudian slip. You must work it out for yourself. The nearest I have come to seeing you think for yourself (in all your posts) is when you say that if God was God – he should be able to reveal himself to you. Apart from that, you draw on the words of man, the testimony of apparent eye witnesses and the opinions of those who appeal to your, as yet, unregenerate sinful nature. These people – admit they don’t know how life started – only that it did. So we are missing something. What is ‘IT’? Next time you are looking at a person – ask yourself if they really came about by a series of accidents.
      You went looking for Moses – but you refuse to look for God. He’s right beside you – if you would only turn around. You know the arguments you have presented have failed – when put to the test – but you just move on to something else. The bible is intellectually robust – start with creation and the answer to your question – “why doesn’t God show himself to you”?
      All the best Ark. I sincerely hope you find God – because he doesn’t need to find you – he knows right where you are – and he’s right there beside you.
      I’m not surprised you stick to this blog – you know the atmosphere is much better here than on your own – littered with insults and deception – where you are keeping such bad company. Especially that John Zande guy. I fear he has gone past the point of no return. But – where there’s life there’s hope. After that – it’s too late – in the words of Dante – “..abandon hope all ye who enter here”. Now that is not a good thing to dwell on – so I will just pray.

      1. Hey Martha-
        Having had countless run ins with the guy who sports the cement religious ball cap, and who as yet he has not won a single argument against God or scripture, the proclaimed ‘victory’ by such characters is simply to try to extend a narrative with questions and issues that have long been settled.

        All one needs do is refer to that sly rascal Cain/ who slew his brother. Why?

        And therein lies the answer to all atheistic concerns.

        But Hitler? Ha, a Christian? Hmm, let’s see, now where did the Head of the church command such things? So if Hitler did not get his marching orders from Christ……..

        I seem to recall reading somewhere about the grace of God, bestowed upon the ungodly.

        But I love how you handle stone helmet wearers with deftness and ease.

  1. A proper christian can be identified because they regularly attend church?
    RFLMAO!

    So an example of a ”Proper Christian” would be …. Torquemada anyone?

    There are some people who might very well tear this post to shreds.
    David, you truly are such a disingenuous Nob

    1. Ark , Had I been a betting man I would have cleaned up on your contribution appearing as the first posting. Your hatred for all things Christian is indeed matched by your persistence !

      1. Not Hatred (not the capital H just for you, Gylen). I merely loathe it it for its lies and those who promote them.
        If it’s any comfort, I feel more or less the same about all religion.

    2. @ Ark my first comment was in reply to your first comment (in case my comment doesn’t appear where I expect it to. As to your second comment. I presume you would agree with anyone who says Hitler was a Christian – because it would suit your anti-Christ sentiments. Talk about disingenuous – ! You can find any bias you want on the internet or from your General Dawkins – to whom you are an adoring devotee and loyal jihadi.

      As for calling David a ‘nob’ – do you mean he is upper class? – in which case he might take that as a compliment – because I don’t think he is. Or do you mean something else? Have you ever considered why the names of body parts we cover are used as insults? This is the language of sexual shame – which the bible has lots to say about.

      You really ought to be a better atheist – you are sooooooooo letting your side down!

    3. Oh by the way Ark – in case I didn’t mention (I can’t see my comment awaiting) – don’t ask me which god I am talking about – and start another circular argument. It’s the invisible one – the one true supreme being – right there beside you.

  2. Arkenaten

    I can only go on what you have written and in this case you haven’t written very much so I can only suggest what you intended and I might be completely wrong. My suggestion is that you are querying the statement that a person is a Christian BECAUSE they go to church. If that is the case then you are, of course, correct. But David wasn’t saying that that by itself makes you a Christian. He was saying that when you become a Christian you will want to go to church. As a Catholic I would put it a bit differently than David but there can be no doubt that Christ wished his followers to belong to a community and that that was the way that the early Christians behaved.
    Now as to Torquemada. What is your problem with Torquemada? Unfortunately you don’t say so I can only guess. My guess is that you will want to claim that he was a vicious and nasty piece of work who went round the country seeking out anybody and everybody who dared to disagree with the Church and that he was responsible for thousands of executions. This is the version put out by some Protestant writers at the time and repeated by secular ideologues like Voltaire in later years. You should try reading some modern histories of the Inquisition. They don’t pretend that executions didn’t happen but they do record the work of the Inquisition in a more balanced way than those who simply wanted to undermine the authority of the Catholic Church. One of the things that these historians point out is that in many cases people asked to be tried by the Inquisition because they knew they would get a fairer trial than they would get in the Civil courts. And have a look at Torquemada’s ‘Ordenanzas’ of 1484.

  3. Hitler was born Catholic and remained a theist throughout his life – the evidence supports that – although to be fair he promoted himself to god at some point. Was he a good Christian – absolutely not.

    1. Mark,
      You can’t be ‘born’ a Catholic. You become a member of the Catholic Church when you are baptised.
      As to whether or not he was a ‘good’ Christian, I think we can agree with David’s point that by adulthood he had ceased to be a Christian of any kind.
      There is, however, perhaps, an interesting question which arises. Can you be a ‘bad’ Christian and, if so, how bad can you be and still be regarded as a Christian? David quite rightly frequently points out that we are all sinners (though Catholics might want to disagree with what that means) so is it possible to commit horrendous crimes and still be a Christian? That’s meant as a question raised for discussion, if anybody is interested in answering it.

      1. @Mike17

        You can’t be ‘born’ a sinner, either. You ‘become’ one when you subscribe to the mythical doctrines imposed upon you by your parents, or pastor, or the immediate culture around you.

        “Sin” is hardly a useful term — in fact, it’s downright idiotic — in the context of Hitler’s crimes against humanity. David quite wrongly points out that we are all ‘sinners’, because that false term is needed to prop up the untenable belief in a saviour figure.

      2. Chris – if you are denying that you are a sinner – or that anyone is – then you are indulging in a dangerous fantasy belief. Sin is precisely the right term to describe human evil.

  4. While I don’t believe that Hitler was a Christian because to say you are the context that he did would be a political statement. I was raised a Boston Irish Catholic, served mass and considered being a priest (Thank God I didn’t) but I did not know Christ as my personal Savior. That said, I believe there is a remnant in Catholic Church. In closing, I believe that pope Francis is a heretic and has betrayed Christ and Biblical doctrine.

    1. That’s interesting, John. I’m a Catholic, serve at Mass and at one time considered the possibility of becoming a priest. As long as I’ve been a Catholic I’ve considered Jesus my personal Saviour. Catholic spirituality strongly emphasises the point that if I (or you) had been the only person who ever lived Jesus would still have died on the Cross for me (or you).

  5. Very well done. Thanks for the insight. I’ve had this discussion many times with atheists and skeptics.

    Blessings.

  6. I thought your answer to this question was pretty spot on apart from one thing.. Whilst yes Hitler was baptised a Catholic Hitler was actually born and brought up in Austria. He hated Austria and moved to Germany, I think in in his 20s where his political and any ‘religious’ views were cemented as he loved Germany. It’s a little confusing when you mention the country moving away from its Christian views which country Austria or Germany?

    I do happen to be a Christian and half Austrian but I’m truthfully quite fed up of Hitler being brought up in every conversation surrounding evil and the holocaust, Christians seem to forget the many atrocities since Hitler by other dictators and countries. I could say so much more on that point but I’ll leave it there.

    Muslims think he was Christian because he was baptised, I’m interested to know if Catholics think he was Catholic because he was baptised?

    1. Firstly, he was most definitely a Catholic when he was baptised. However, it is clear that at some point Hitler apostatised (rejected his faith) and in that way ceased to be a Catholic. You may sometimes come across the term ‘practising Catholic’. This refers to a Catholic who carries out all the duties that the Church insists on and continues to accept the Catholic faith in totality. There is, I’m afraid, an awful lot of pussy-footing around ‘Catholics’ who are not practising. The old term for such people was ‘lapsed Catholics’ but I have come across some more modern versions which are, frankly, ridiculous. In my own opinion you are either a Catholic or you are not. To talk of ‘practising Catholics’ is like talking about a Scottish Glaswegian. But if you want a modern example to discuss, try Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York state. He claims to be a Catholic and has just given his approval to a law that permits abortion up to the point of birth.

      1. All the catholic priests that raped children and the hundreds/thousands of other members of the catholic church who pursued and helped enforce a policy which allowed the guilty to avoid criminal prosecution and continue to abuse other children – are they Catholics?

        The answer would – in a vast number of cases – be yes.

        There can’t be any suggestion – surely – that simply transgressing against one of the moral dictates of your personal religious faith automatically means you don’t have the status of a true believer – it just means you have sinned and need to seek forgiveness.

        Isn’t that how that works?

  7. We can post quotes all day long of Hitler proclaiming his Christian belief, there are literally hundreds spread across the years, but a better way exists to answer the question without any conjecture at all: How did other Christians consider Hitler?

    On that, we have a wealth of information, and it seems that not only did Hitler consider himself a very, very good Christian, but so too did church leadership. For example, Father Senn, a Catholic priest, writing in a Catholic publication, May 15, 1934:

    [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God

    Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933:

    The word “German” is God’s Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. …Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. …Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.

    We also have clear statements of support from Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, the Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, and Bishop Hans Meiser of the Bavarian Evangelical-Lutheran Church.

    So, Yes: Hitler was a Christian, thought himself a very good Christian, and others agreed.

    1. John – I’m afraid that you are relying far to much on Wiki, Google and atheist websites. You are also passing on false information…there have not been ‘literally hundreds of quotes’ of Hitler proclaiming his Christian faith – there are a handful that get endlessly repeated (and are read out of context). Perhaps you would benefit from reading more widely…try reading whole books – not quotes mined from atheist sources.

      1. I’m afraid you’re mistaken, or deliberately lying, which I truly hope is not the case.

        I can produce these quotes (with references of publication/date) of Hitler professing his Christian faith, his belief in God, in him acting according to God’s will, on thanking God, commenting on God’s grace, on fulfilling God’s mission, on sin against God, of his confidence in God, on capitalism and God, on going where god wills, on when we appear before God, on faith and morality, on faith-based schools, on fighting the Atheistic movement, on the requirement of faith, on the significance of Christian love, on Positive Christianity, on missionary work, and many other subjects.

        Just say the word and I’d be happy to paste them all for you to read.

        I see, though, that you have not addressed the actual content of my comment.

        Yes, Hitler thought himself a very good Christian, but more important to establishing his actual faith we should look to how others (especially church leaders) considered him as a Christian.

        Here are a few more statements from Cardinals and Bishops:

        Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: May God Preserve Adolf Hitler

        “What the old parliament and parties did not accomplish in sixty years, your statesmanlike foresight has achieved in six months. For Germany’s prestige in East and West and before the whole world this handshake with the Papacy, the greatest moral power in the history of the world, is a feat of immeasurable blessing. …May God preserve the Reich Chancellor for our people.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, praising Adolf Hitler for the Concordat, July 24, 1933

        German Christian: Hitler Has Reawakened the Church

        “Why don’t our rulers declare themselves for the Volkskirche, which is fighting for a living Christianity? With our great leader Adolf Hitler, our previously dead church also experienced the reawakening of a vital spirit. …[Julius] Streicher, the Franconian leader, said in a speech: ‘The murder of Golgotha is written on the foreheads of the Jews.’ Yes – and that is why there is a curse on that people. Jesus, however, died for us and so we should believe in him and accept him.”
        – German Christian woman, letter to Germany’s Foreign Minister, August 27, 1935

        Fulda German Bishops’ Conference: May God Help the Führer Succeed

        [Germany must be made militarily stronger to ensure that not only would Europe be] cleansed from Bolshevism, but the entire rescued civilized world will be able to be thankful to us. …The task which this imposes upon our people and Fatherland follows as a matter of course. May our Führer, with God’s help, succeed in completing this terribly difficult undertaking with unshakable determination and faithful participating of allVolksgenossen.
        – Fulda German Bishops’ Conference, Pastoral Letter, August 19, 1936

        Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Hitler Lives in Faith in God

        “The Führer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born sovereign. …Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture. …Not as clear is his conception of the Catholic Church as a God-established institution.” As a result of this report, the conference votes to “once again affirm our loyal and positive attitude, demanded by the fourth commandment, toward today’s form of government and the Führer.” They assure the Führer they will provide him “all available moral resources his world-historical struggle aimed at repelling Bolshevism.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, meeting of Bavarian bishops on his meeting with Adolf Hitler, December 13, 1936

        Cardinal Theodor Innitzer: Pray to God in Thanks for Hitler and the Nazis

        [Austrian Catholics should greet Adolf Hitler and the Nazis by] praying to the Lord God in thanks for the bloodless course of this great political change and to ask for a happy future for Austria. Of course, all orders from the authorities will be happily and willingly obeyed.
        – Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, Archbishop of Vienna, March 12, 1938

        Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Adolf Hitler is a Man of Peace

        “[Adolf Hitler is a] man of peace. …The great deed of safeguarding peace…moves the German episcopate acting in the name of the Catholics of all the German dioceses…to extend congratulations and thanks and to order a festive ringing of bells on Sunday.” Read in all Berlin pulpits: “God has heard the prayer of all Christendom for peace. By His grace and the tireless efforts of the responsible statesmen the terrible affliction of a war has been averted… [W]e desire now with a prayer and a Te deum to praise God for His goodness in that He has preserved peace for us…[and] assured the return of our Sudeten kinsmen to the German Reich.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, commemorating Germany occupying Sudentenland, October 2, 1938

        Easter Sunday Blessing: Nazi Party Rules Germany in God’s Name

        A state that once again rules in God’s name can count not only on our applause but also on enthusiastic and active cooperation from the church. With joy and thanks we see how this new state rejects blasphemy, attacks immorality, promotes discipline and order with a firm hand, demands awe before God, works to keep marriage sacred and our youth spiritually instructed, brings honor back to fathers of families, ensures that love of people and fatherland is no longer mocked, but burns in a thousand hearts. …We can only plead with our fellow worshipers to do an they can to help these new productive forces in our land reach a complete and unimpeded victory.
        – Easter Sunday Blessing from Protestant Pastors in Bavaria, April 16, 1933

        And if you require any further secondary sources, then you need only review US papers at the time. For example:
        The New York Times Story: “Atheist Hall Converted.”

        “In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members…”
        – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler’s outlawing atheistic and freethinking groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

        Associated Press Story: “Campaign against ‘Godless Movement'”

        “A campaign against the ‘godless movement’ and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s forces.”
        – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933

      2. Feel free to list the ‘literally hundreds of quotes from Hitler affirming his Christian faith. That is after all what you claimed. Have you read any of Hitler’s writings? Have you read Mein Kampf – or are you just quoting of atheist websites? I have read all of Hitler’s writings and letters (that are available in English) – have you read any? I have also read numerous biographies – studied the subject at University and have read extensive diaries, papers etc from Hitler’s compatriots. I know of no serious historian who argues that Hitler was a Christian. Would you like to present any? Incidentally quoting lots of bishops re Hitler does not make him a Christian (you are aware of what a Christian is? You do know about the German Church? Do you have any idea of theology, logic, history and context?). Meanwhile I leave you with this from someone who knew Hitler rather well – his personal secretary, Traudl Junge – wrote:

        ““ “Sometimes we also had interesting discussions about the church and the development of the human race. Perhaps it’s going too far to call them discussions, because he would begin explaining his ideas when some question or remark from one of us had set them off, and we just listened. He was not a member of any church, and thought the Christian religions were out-dated, hypocritical institutions that lured people into them. The laws of nature were his religion. He could reconcile his dogma of violence better with nature than with the Christian doctrine of loving your neighbour and your enemy. ‘Science isn’t yet clear about the origins of humanity,’ he once said. ‘We are probably the highest stage of development of some mammal which developed from reptiles and moved on to human beings, perhaps by way of the apes. We are a part of creation and children of nature, and the same laws apply to us as to all living creatures. And in nature the law of the struggle for survival has reigned from the first.
        Everything incapable of life, everything weak is eliminated. Only mankind and above all the church have made it their aim to keep alive the weak, those unfit to live, and people of an inferior kind.” (Until the Final Hour –p108)

        Or this from Time magazine – The great Jewish physicist, Albert Einstein, who himself barely escaped annihilation at Nazi hands, made the point well in 1944 when he said, “Being a lover of freedom, when the Nazi revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, but the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, but they, like the universities were silenced in a few short weeks. Then I looked to individual writers . . . . they too were mute. Only the Church,” Einstein concluded, “stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing the truth. . . . I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel great affection and admiration . . . . and am forced thus to confess that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly.”

        This article may also help you….next time you comment come to the subject with some degree of knowledge and don’t just Google in order to find quotes that help your prejudice…https://theweeflea.com/2016/06/11/was-hitler-really-a-christian/

      3. Yes, I’m quite well read on this entire subject. And I see you still haven’t addressed the core of my comment: what church leaders thought of Hitler.

        Any particular reason why?

        As requested, here are the quotes with publication date, as well as other testimonies to Hitler by church leaders. It is long, yes, but as you have requested it, and challenged me to do so, I do expect you to do the right thing and approve this comment.

        Adolf Hitler on God: Quotes from Adolf Hitler Expressing Belief & Faith in God
        Adolf Hitler had Faith in God that His Agenda was Divinely Ordained

        1. Adolf Hitler: Acting According to God’s Will
        I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

        2. Adolf Hitler: Thanking God
        Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

        3. Adolf Hitler: Deutschland Über Alles
        I had so often sung ‘Deutschland über Alles’ and shouted ‘Heil’ at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

        4. Adolf Hitler: God’s Grace Smiles
        Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord’s grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
        – Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7

        5. Adolf Hitler: Fulfilling God’s Mission
        What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

        6. Adolf Hitler: Fate of God
        But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

        7. Adolf Hitler: Sin Against the Will of God
        In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following: (a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered; (b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap. The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        8. Adolf Hitler: Sacrilege Against God
        Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        9. Adolf Hitler: Confidence in God
        Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the ‘remaking’ of the Reich as they call it.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        10. Adolf Hitler: Gold has Replaced God
        It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        11. Adolf Hitler: Sin Against the Will of God
        It doesn’t dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        12. Adolf Hitler: Creation of God
        That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy, obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church. Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction is replaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created?
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        13. Adolf Hitler: Don’t Just Talk About Fulfilling God’s Will
        The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God’s will, and actually fulfill God’s will, and not let God’s word be desecrated. For God’s will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord’s creation, the divine will.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 10

        14. Adolf Hitler: Doing Justice to God
        To do justice to God and our own conscience, we have turned once more to the German Volk.
        – Adolf Hitler in speech about the need for a moral regeneration of German, February 10, 1933

        15. Adolf Hitler: Going Where God Wills
        I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 15, 1936, Munich, Germany

        16. Adolf Hitler: May God Bless Us
        May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 24, 1933

        17. Adolf Hitler: When We Appear Before God…
        We don’t ask the Almighty, ‘Lord, make us free!” We want to be active, to work, to work together, so that when the hour comes that we appear before the Lord we can say to him: ‘Lord, you see that we have changed.’ The German people is no longer a people of dishonor and shame, of self-destructiveness and cowardice. No, Lord, the German people is once more strong in spirit, strong in determination, strong in the willingness to bear every sacrifice. Lord, now bless our battle and our freedom, and therefore our German people and fatherland.
        – Adolf Hitler, Prayer, May 1, 1933

        18. Adolf Hitler: Fighting for the Lord’s Work
        I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936

        19. Adolf Hitler in Conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber
        The Catholic Church should not deceive herself: if National Socialism does not succeed in defeating Bolshevism, then Church and Christianity in Europe too are finished. Bolshevism is the mortal enemy of the Church as much as of Fascism. …Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.
        – Adolf Hitler in conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, November 4, 1936

        Adolf Hitler on Faith: Quotes from Adolf Hitler on the Need for Religious Faith

        1. Adolf Hitler: Faith is the Only Basis for Morality
        This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. …There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

        2. Adolf Hitler: Faith is Harder to Shake than Knowledge
        Faith is harder to shake than knowledge, love succumbs less to change than respect, hate is more enduring than aversion, and the impetus to the mightiest upheavals on this earth has at all times consisted less in a scientific knowledge dominating the masses than in a fanaticism which inspired them and sometimes in a hysteria which drove them forward.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12

        3. Adolf Hitler: Fanaticism of Faith can Move Mountains
        All in all, this whole period of winter 1919-20 was a single struggle to strengthen confidence in the victorious might of the young movement and raise it to that fanaticism of faith which can move mountains.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12

        4. Adolf Hitler: Faith Lifts Us Above the Level of Animal Existence
        By helping to lift the human being above the level of mere animal existence, Faith really contributes to consolidate and safeguard its own existence. Taking humanity as it exists to-day and taking into consideration the fact that the religious beliefs which it generally holds and which have been consolidated through our education, so that they serve as moral standards in practical life, if we should now abolish religious teaching and not replace it by anything of equal value the result would be that the foundations of human existence would be seriously shaken.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        7. Adolf Hitler: Christian Missionaries Should Look to Europe
        It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man in this world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroes with missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly, but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that where parents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity on a poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother, than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bring unhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

        8. Adolf Hitler: Burn out the Poison of Immorality
        Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out thepoison of immoralitywhich has entered into our whole life and culture as a result ofliberal excessduring the past … (few) years.
        – Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

        Adolf Hitler on Christianity: Quotes from Hitler Expressing Christian Faith

        1. Adolf Hitler: The Nazi Party Represents Positive Christianity
        “We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession….”
        – Article 20 of the program of the German Workers’ Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP)

        2. Adolf Hitler: I am a Catholic
        I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
        – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

        3. Adolf Hitler: Religious Life as the Highest and Most Desirable Ideal
        I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 1

        4. Adolf Hitler: Christianity and the Holy German Reich
        As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

        5. Adolf Hitler: Significance of the Religion of Love
        The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings… If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth… In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

        6. Adolf Hitler: Personification of the Devil
        ….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
        – Adolf Hitler (following the position of Martin Luther), Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        7. Adolf Hitler: Christians Should Deal with Atheistic Jews
        And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        8. Adolf Hitler: As a Christian, I Feel that My Lord and Savior was a Fighter
        My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. …Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. …
        – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922

        9. Adolf Hitler: Fascism is Closer to Christianity than Liberalism or Marxism
        The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms. …The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy …proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism…
        – Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929, on the new Lateran Treaty between Mussolini’s fascist government and the Vatican

        10. Adolf Hitler: Compromises with Atheism Destroy Religious, Ethical Values
        By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society. …
        – Adolf Hitler, speech before the Reichstag, March 23, 1933, just before the Enabling Act is passed.

        11. Adolf Hitler: Burn out the Poison of Immorality
        Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out thepoison of immoralitywhich has entered into our whole life and culture as a result ofliberal excessduring the past … (few) years.
        – Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

        Adolf Hitler on Religion: Quotes from Hitler on the Importance of Religion

        1. Adolf Hitler: Religion is Not a Means of Doping the People
        But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me. Everything was disparaged–the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had to listen to that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeoisie for the exploitation of’ the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterwards; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.
        – Adolf Hitler, on listening to Social Democrats, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

        2. Adolf Hitler: Violence Must Have a Firm, Spiritual Base
        Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

        3. Adolf Hitler: Human World Inconceivable Without Religious Belief
        This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations. …There may be a few hundreds of thousands of superior men who can live wisely and intelligently without depending on the general standards that prevail in everyday life, but the millions of others cannot do so.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

        4. Adolf Hitler: Faith Required for Basic Religious Views
        Of course, even the general designation ‘religious’ includes various basic ideas or convictions, for example, the indestructibility of the soul, the eternity of its existence, the existence of a higher being, etc. But all these ideas, regardless of how convincing they may be for the individual, are submitted to the critical examination of this individual and hence to a fluctuating affirmation or negation until emotional divination or knowledge assumes the binding force of apodictic faith. This, above all, is the fighting factor which makes a breach and opens the way for the recognition of basic religious views.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

        5. Adolf Hitler: National Socialism is Not Hostile to Religion
        The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgment of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie.
        – Adolf Hitler, speech to members of the Nazi Party on the Nazi-Vatican Concordant, July 22, 1933

        Hitler on Secularism, Atheism: Quotes from Hitler Opposing Secularism & Atheism

      4. John – let me ask you again – as someone who is ‘quite well read ‘ on this subject – have you actually read Mein Kampf? Because the evidence from your quotes reads as though you have not – and instead are just copying and pasting what you have got from some atheist article!

        Some of the quotes you use above are questionable. I have removed the ones at the end from some church leaders – your post was already far too long and they were not relevant to what I asked you. You said that there were literally hundreds of quotes from Hitler affirming that Hitler was a Christian….firstly there are not hundreds. And secondly even the ones you used do not affirm at all that Hitler was a Christian. Thirdly you completely ignore historical context. Your position is a classic example of somone who thinks that because they can quote mine of the internet – somehow that proves their point. Its the combination of ignorance and arrogance that leads to such prejudice….so we still wait for the evidence of your assertion….

        Do you think Traudl Junge was lying…or that you know better than her what Hitlers religion was?

      5. You asked me to post the comments. You said: Feel free to list the ‘literally hundreds of quotes from Hitler affirming his Christian faith

        I also see you’ve deleted about 3 pages of quotes.

        Mein Kampf? Yes, I have read it, in two different translations. I have also reviewed the transcripts of dozens of speeches. Have you?

        But, I see. Your entire ‘rebuttal’ rests on my word choice, not the actual content.

        Persuasive.

        And you still haven’t addressed the core of my original comment: multiple secondary sources confirming that Hitler was indeed seen by others (not just himself) as a very good Christian.

      6. John – the 3 pages of quotes deleted were not from Hitler – and you had already taken up enough time…likewise with this comment – I have removed your wee rant at the end…feel free to rant on your own blog.

        Yes – I have read many of Hitlers speeches – its what my first degree was in. My rebuttal rests simply on the fact that none of those quotes proves or even indicates that Hitler was a Christian – which either means that you don’t know what a Christian is – or you are just allowing your prejudice to blind you.

        I have addressed your silly claim that some secondary sources spoke of Hitler as a Christian – none of that is proof that he was – or indeed that they were!

        And you have still not answered the question – can you name one credible historian of the period who argues that Hitler was a Christian – after all you are so well read in the subject.

        Anyway I’m off to bed and don’t do the internet over the weekend (or try not to!) so any comments – if they are worth posting won’t be done so until I return…but don’t worry rant away on your own page to your hearts content….

      7. David, as you have not posted my comment (from over 9hrs ago), yet I see you have posted other people’s comments throughout the day, I must assume you’re deliberately withholding mine.

        So, just so I have this straight: You ask someone to do something (post Hitler quotes), they do it (as requested), then you refuse to allow that comment, leaving thread appearing that the person has not responded.

        That’s very “Christian” of you.

        And with that behaviour you think *you* can judge Hitler’s Christianity?

      8. Your post was posted….not immediately because I don’t spend my whole day at the computer and because your post was so ridiculous that I almost couldn’t be bothered….but it was posted and is a fine example of arrogance and ignorance. I wanted a list of the ‘literally hundreds of quotes by Hitler’ proving he was a Christian. You gave me a lot (nowhere near hundreds) and almost none of them prove anything of the sort. Next time do some reading (whole books) for yourself….meanwhile feel free to tell us which of the major historians who have studied Hitler and the Nazis think that he was a Christian….you are after all, according to yourself, ‘well read’ on this subject….feel free to answer….

  8. Pastor David

    Have you looked at the academic Richard Weikart’s recent book on the subject? Here is a link:

    https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Religion-Twisted-Beliefs-Drove-ebook/dp/B01MG45IZ8

    I haven’t read it in full; I only flipped through it in a book store. Weikart’s conclusion, though, is that Hitler was neither a Christian nor an atheist: he was some kind of pantheist who strove to apply the laws of nature, as he perceived them, to society in a form of social Darwinism.

      1. I should also add that if you read Bonhoeffer’s Letters from Prison, he and his correspondent friend were under no illusion that Nazism was a different religion.

  9. @john zande
    “We can post quotes all day long of Hitler proclaiming his Christian belief, there are literally hundreds spread across the years,”
    The interesting this is that John did not bother to post a single one.
    “but a better way exists to answer the question without any conjecture at all: How did other Christians consider Hitler?”
    How many of these quotations actually express a belief that Hitler was a Christian? Most of them simply express some kind of approval for some of his actions.
    But here’s some interesting facts.
    At one time there were more Catholic priests imprisoned in Dachau concentration camp than there were Jews.
    Maximilian Kolbe was a Franciscan Friar who was imprisoned in Auschwitz. He volunteered to be starved to death in the place of another man who had a family.
    In 1937 Pope Pius XI issued his encyclical, ‘With Burning Sorrow’. It was secretly smuggled into Germany and strongly criticised National Socialism. As a result, hundreds of people were sent to prison or concentration camps.
    Clemens von Galen was Bishop of Münster from 1933 1946. Galen began to criticize Hitler’s movement in 1934. He condemned the Nazi worship of race in a pastoral letter on 29 January 1934. He assumed responsibility for the publication of a collection of essays that criticized the Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg and defended the teachings of the Catholic Church. He was an outspoken critic of certain Nazi policies and helped draft Pope Pius XI’s 1937 anti-Nazi encyclical ‘With Burning Sorrow’. In 1941, he delivered three sermons in which he denounced the arrest of Jesuits, the confiscation of church property, attacks on the Church, and in the third, the state-approved killing of invalids.
    Up until Hitler and the Nazis came to power in January 1933, the German Catholic Church forbad any Catholics from joining the Nazi Party.

    1. @Mike17

      As explained, the better method is to show how other people (church leaders, specifically) thought of Hitler as a Christian. This is I did.

      But as per Weeflea’s request I have posted the Hitler quotes. .. some hours ago, actually.

      He has not yet approved that comment, but when he does, as I’m sure he will considering his challenge to do so, you can see for youself.

      1. Actually you have done nothing of the sort – and the best way to judge whether Hitler is a Christian is not by quote mining selected Christian leaders but by looking at what he believed and what he said and what he did. You also lied about having literally hundreds of quotes from Hitler about his Christian faith.

  10. Chris – if you are denying that you are a sinner – or that anyone is – then you are indulging in a dangerous fantasy belief. Sin is precisely the right term to describe human evil./blockquote>

    1.
    an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
    “a sin in the eyes of God”

    As atheists have no belief in gods including the deity you worship then it should be patently obvious they do not beleive in sin.

    1. Got it in one, David. Yes: I’m denying that I’m a ‘sinner’ –or that anyone else is, including you. You might accept the term, based on the mythology. I don’t. And trying to piggy-back the word with an even more nebulous concept like ‘evil’ is no help, either. I will, however, gladly accept terms like ‘flaws’, ‘misdemeanors’, ‘failings’, hell, even ‘crimes’, but most of us work to overcome the first few without any ‘spiritual’ help; and we have all sorts of civil and criminal codes to help regulate us as a society.

      Do babies have sins? If so, what’s so terrible about aborting the fetus, then? Unless you want more babies born, just as potential recruits for Jesus? If babies don’t have sins, when, precisely, do they kick in? Are there genes for ‘sin’, and how are they expressed?

      You’ve lamented, elsewhere, the absence of evangelism in the churches, and suggested that’s why they were losing parishioners. I’d wager that — among other things — the obsession with characterizing otherwise ordinary people as ‘sinners’ in need of redemption is also helping to drive them away.

      1. So you accept that there are ‘flaws, failings and hell” but you don’t accept that there is sin or evil. That does seem somewhat arbitrary…

        Your suggestion that we should kill sinners is bizzare – have you thought that one through? And yes all human beings are born sinful….but I wouldn’t advocate killing them!

        YOu would lose your wager!

      2. And yes all human beings are born sinful…

        That is a theological statement (belief) of faith with no evidence to substantiate it, and thus, can be summarily dismissed.

      3. You deny that there is evidence that human beings are sinful! Its no wonder you are not a Christian – with such an inability to see! What’s next? You think there is no evidence that the earth is a sphere?!

  11. @David

    Your suggestion that all humans are born sinful is “bizzare” [sic]. How, exactly, is this manifested in a new-born baby?

    You misread — or I failed to express it clearly –my choice of more sensible substitutes for “sin.” No, I don’t accept “hell” as a place. That sentence should have read as: “Hell, I’ll even accept ‘crimes’ “.

    Is adultery a “sin”? Or children disobeying their parents? Doesn’t Leviticus prescribe death in those situations? No, I don’t think we should kill “sinners”. That should be obvious because I don’t accept the terms. But the OT certainly seems to indicate we should, and I’ve heard apologists defend the (mythologized) Canaanite slaughters as justified because the Israelite opponents were apparently “sinners.”

    I accept the term “evil” only to the degree that we lack the requisite words to describe horrific human behaviours or acts. But the word “evil” is too unhelpfully loaded with theological connotations, and there’s certainly nothing to suggest any malevolent “supernatural” motivations behind what people, at their worst, are capable of.

    1. My suggestion is that all human beings are sinful….that is in fact indisputable – unless you can point to one that never does anything wrong. As for being born that way – I would argue that that is indeed the case – although why you think it should be manifested in a baby I’m not sure!

      1. How on earth can a ”suggestion” be an indisputabilidade fact?

        Sin is regarded as a transgression against your god.
        Demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus of Nazareth is this god then we can have a very interesting discussion.
        Until then …..

  12. Speaking of sinners – when drawing on recent history to point out an evil person – we regularly judge Hitler as the epitome of evil. I don’t know who it was that said something like – “the very best person we can imagine is still far closer to Hitler than they are to God”. We have no idea what righteousness, holiness, moral perfection and purity really look like! We number ourselves with the ‘good’ people – if we haven’t crossed the line separating the ‘good’ people from the ‘bad’ people.
    Lies and propaganda are nothing new. I know of one Jew who pretended to be a friend of another, even eating from the same dish. Once, he greeted his friend with a kiss, but only to identify him to an armed mob who would kill him. “Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses” Like Hitler, this man’s crimes were his destruction – and he too committed suicide.

    We are told that the lies and propaganda surrounding the Jews in Nazi Germany – led the majority to believe that the Jews were to blame for everything wrong in the world.

    In order for us to prosper, to be free, to succeed and thrive in the present day – we must rid ourselves of everything that holds us back. Just like Nazism – we must rid ourselves of the needy, the weak and sick, those with mental and physical disabilities. This is best done clinically – through abortion and euthanasia – under the pretence of being a friend – we send the unborn, the unloved, the needy, the mentally ill, the sick and the elderly to their death.

    Those who caution us to exercise moral restraint are enemies to our freedom. They are enemies who wound us – while the cultural zeitgeist ravishes us with kisses. They must be silenced. Religion is the root of all evil – especially Christians and Jews. Israel is the evil and must be crushed. Christians are the cause of everything that is wrong in the world – they are associated with or responsible for every evil deed ever done in this world – including the Holocaust and they are being branded like Hitler – even in this very comments section – and so branded as the epitome of evil They are homophobic, transphobic, anti -women’s rights. And so goes the propaganda – similar to Nazi Germany.

    Just as Satan moved Judas and Hitler – so it seems he is active today. As we cast of the idea of God and exercise our freedoms – what do we see all around? Has this world really got better? Slavery, sex-trafficking, violent crimes and rape carried out by children, war, excessive greed and exploitation, chaos, political corruption, confusion, pollution, mental health crisis, poor education and on and on. Oh but we are on our way to a bold new world! And before anyone says “your god commits genocide and slavery” – Christianity made the world more humanitarian. Fact. It is the post-Christian nations that are becoming the most chaotic and barbaric – not wanting the Blesser but only the blessings, not the Giver but the gifts.

    Christendom is over as far as I can see and yes, it was flawed, political and sinful in places but Christianity spread all over the world through empires and missionary. “And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth (if you have issue with 4 corners check out Isaiah 40:22 & Job 26:7), God and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.”

    The net is closing in on the Jews and the Christians. For further reading read the gospel of Matthew chpt 24, 2 Tim chpt 3.

  13. Thank you for your insightful article. Its a pity you get bombarded by atheistic nonsense about sin and so forth. They can choose any word they like, but they cannot deny that there is something seriously wrong in the human condition and for me ‘sin’ covers it.

    The New Testament has much to say on ‘True and false prophets’ and ‘True and false disciples’. Jesus condemned many of the the religious leaders of his day and so we should not be surprised if anyone calling themselves a ‘Christian’ turns out to be nothing of the sort. “Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them.” (Matthew 7:20 NIV) God knows who are His.

    1. @Bob T

      Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say the problem is not so much in the ‘human condition’ (our neurological capacity, after all, for reflective thought has enabled us to actively work towards reducing suffering), but rather the problem is to be found in the nature of a world where all life is contracted by birth to prey upon the other in order to steal the proteins and fats and sugars and minerals they need just to stay alive one more day in what amounts to a daily apocalypse of obliged bloodletting?

      1. I agree with what you say about the natural world, but we humans are able to make choices and we have always been incapable of loving our neighbour for any length of time. We don’t need to kill each other to survive as many animals do, but we continue doing it. Jesus said we are evil at heart and even if we don’t physically kill each other, we often harbour murderous thoughts. I was as self righteous as the next man before I encountered God and realised that Jesus was right.

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