Christianity Politics USA

The Kitchen Table 33 – Civic Religion.

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638 Comments on The Kitchen Table 33 – Civic Religion.

On this weeks Kitchen Table Steve and I discuss my earlier article on Civic Religion 

The Kitchen Table 32 – Judgement Day

This is the song I mentioned….

638 comments

    1. There might be something to this. A lot of people were accusing Meghan Markle of having a narcisssistic personality disorder and one of the tell-tale signs is that they apparently have to tell their truth over and over. Hence people thought her constant revising of her story with the Oprah interview, Netflix series, podcast and so on were possibly symptomatic of the disorder.

      Here we have Peter Catt constantly telling us how he wants us to see him as a man of peace, and a gentle, enlightened person when he is a bitter, angry little promoter of immorality.

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      1. Yes this is when I knew for sure Peter Catt was a fraud. He hypocritically complained about the legal system punishing an environmental activist after he himself had set the police onto an activist protesting about church misconduct. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/sep/11/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-nsw-coalition-in-crisis-as-covid-19-border-row-intensifies

        Peter Catt’s defence of environmental activist, Ben Pennings, 2020-
        “In a statement, Catt compared Pennings to anti-slavery and suffrage activists, who were “punished by the legal or political systems of the day”.

        It is a sad indictment that a local man who has been fighting for transparency has been gagged – including from engaging in personal social media activities. The irony of this is not lost on any of us who support the right of individuals to use their personal social media channels for the common good.”

        It is all grandstanding performances and crocodile tears from Rev Catt I am afraid. Nonviolent protesting and activism good when it is from his side and bad when he is on the receiving end.

  2. A review of a book written by the Brisbane Anglicans. I will quote one paragraph:

    “I think it important to comment on the type of Anglicanism and the type of Christianity that the authors are projecting. I get the impression (and its only an impression) that while some of the authors enjoy wrestling with Scripture as a religious problem, and though they appreciate something of the Bible’s antiquity and aesthetics, they do not actually like Scripture as an authoritative text, and as such they would like to be free from Christian Scripture and the insipid dogmas that it generated. Liberation from such textual tyranny would enable the authors to forge a post-Christian and post-Theistic faith. A faith gladly pruned of its malodrous catholic and orthodox roots and finally free to forge new ways of expressing religious consciousness in a postmodern age. After reading the book I am left wondering (and I’m not wondering far from their intellectual line) that some of the authors would much prefer that congregations publicly read Germaine Greer than Genesis, Noam Chomsky than Chronicles, Oprah than Obadiah, Marx than Mark, or the Gospel of Philip rather than Philippians. These other texts would seem to be far more conducive to the ideologies that the authors want to cultivate and the Bible in fact seems to be inhibiting progress towards a shift in values towards this direction. In deconstructing the authors’ intellectual plane as it appears to me (though appearances can be deceiving) a few of the authors look to be strangely reminiscent of the arch-liberal Bp John Colenso and like him are really closet unitarians who only remain part of the established church because they want to be players in the big game. At the end of the day, the authors seems to believe that the only reason for keeping Scripture in the Church is because heavily vetted fragments of the Scriptures can provide a religious grammar to anchor projects relating to eco-care and neo-marxism in something vaguely transcendent. Much like the United Church of Canada, the authors look as if they are plotting a course towards a transcendent atheism which knows neither revelation nor redemption; a faith beyond canon and creed; a community embarrassed about its religious heritage and now wants make good by plotting a way that it can make minimal usage of its scriptural paraphernalia while retaining a philanthropic role for itself in society…”

    patheos.com/blogs/euangelion/2013/05/book-review-anglican-bibliology-for-a-progressive-audience/

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    1. I am partly wondering if they ultimately want something like the more liberal strands of Judaism – a religion with no God, just consisting of rituals and ceremonies binding society together and a very liberal moral stance.

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  3. Well, speaking of Quadrant, this reader comment attached to their latest article is worth considering here:

    ‘georgepshaw

    Pessimism is justified. No more so that in the Diocese of Brisbane which has been the engine room for the re-sexualisation of Christianity in Australia’s Anglicanism. At some point in his 21 year Brisbane episcopate the recently retired Archbishop espoused what he has since called ‘Comprehensive Anglicanism’. Only months before his surprise and inexplicable resignation he declared that Comprehensive Anglicanism’, despite its setback at General Synod 2022, would triumph. He implied he would be there in the leadership team. He had also established by his own actions that ‘Comprehensive Anglicanism’ would go far beyond the goal of same sex marriage. It would open the priesthood to the transgendered community. And acting the role of an anarchist Reformer confirmed in office two transgendered priests without precedent in Anglican Australia or any authority from General Synod to do so. Moreover, there was scarcely a whimper from within the Dioceses which over a 21 year period he had remade in his image. At this very moment an Election Committee dominated by his appointees is seeking a replacement. The reform engine in Brisbane Diocese deserves the closest scrutiny as the retiring Archbishop has put in place a massive propaganda programme for a successor to implement.’

    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2023/01/how-will-the-anglican-story-end/

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  6. Anglican Church Southern Queensland is choosing to support “The Voice”:

    “Editor’s note 15/03/2023: The ACSQ supports the Anglican Board of Mission’s 2017 call for “a Constitutionally Entrenched First Nations Voice”. The ACSQ also supports the Anglican Church of Australia’s Joint Affirmation of Faith and Justice with First Nations Peoples (carried by affirmation at General Synod, Oct 2007), and seeks practical ways to do so, including our association with Reconciliation Australia and the prescribed process of Reconciliation Action Plans.”

    Also, APCVA’s Deb Bird has been retweeting Steve Chalke (and Sandi Toksvig!) in recent days:

    https://twitter.com/revdebbird/with_replies

    Abso9lutely no comment from any APCVA supporters that I can find about AUKUS though. As someone said above, they have never tweeted about the Ukraine War either. I guess AUKUS comes from the “correct” side of politics for them. They are more fixated on identity politics and wokeness anyway since their last few posts are about the Voice and the Mardi Gras:

    https://www.facebook.com/AProgressiveChristianVoiceAustralia?hc_ref=ARTXjJJujpVg14cVFD9–wupyMdgIJa16yN04-NIvd5HhAexvuoRXDfz02qrxaLrpLY&fref=nf&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBBG5P4nDFkxl5lYjxqpmBf94XpaOZJLJCKHXKh9ExBTal5twBkJ2uWaQFW1vSdaBAwXYHsunMIEse2A5abHiex0pproWPOjluRJb1YNHXKioWNn2rEOY_MmRIeqEqMy_c2Qn_Smpw-G2kakJWyy_QlFvNiCoOQ3QUIMWLmlj8cyz3Z4-d11WPTQIAwjpmzDnh69Q7kf3WJDoIp7O4JkrqzDEs-SE5hGI2TqM4tzioN3ZbWNw52BvS6lh1fh8Dw0haN9vDGOhmG69RGNC97gA87JRPiOAm9xGwdtd6vW-UqIeRJgNuMcPRS2xyFoyzr4uahbaJXMaCt8GneG8XCaxmneb-dGT8CtzlhvsaLfQ9zB1T-b4Qa7YM-ap_KFbFCgMwTzLU

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    1. Yes besides the fact they have fabricated an heretical new religion out of whole cloth, my biggest concern with the progressive christians is that they have politicised the church.

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  7. Jeremy Greaves officially confirmed as the new Archbishop of Brisbane.

    I’m sure he will do a wonderful job as Aspinall’s puppet and if his old friend and mentor, John Shelby Spong, was still alive, he’d be very pleased. 🙁

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  9. There’s a silver lining to this terrible news. Parishioners can’t deny they’re part of an unorthodox church now if they choose to stay in the Anglican Church Southern Queensland diocese.

    Jeremy Greaves’ stances on the Apostles’ Creed and gay marriage are well known and on the pubkuc record as was his friendship with Spong and admiration for Borg.

    People who’ve had their heads in the sand or choosed to turn a blind eye to the likes of Aspinall, Catt & co have to admit their church has been unorthodox and unbiblical for 2 generations of leaders now and thisto say nothing of all that happens at the parish level with all of the unorthodox pastors the diocese has been deliberately producing.

    People need to vote with their feet. Stay and endorse the new belief system or leave and go to Southern Cross diocese or another denomination altogether if you believe in the Bible and Christ’s resurrection. If anyone in Brisbane now says they are Anglican when asked what church they belong to, people already assume they are very liberal in their Christianity and probably not an orthodox believer at all and this appointment will just confirm that in their minds.

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  10. I’ve just been on the phone to a friend and we were talking about Jeremy Greaves’ appointment. It was just like how some of you have said that there are many rural parishes like Kilcoy where the people are politically very conservative but theologically super liberal.

    This friend of mine is deeply involved in the LNP and attends branch meetings but she couldn’t be happier about Jeremy Greaves’ appointment as Archbishop of Brisbane and yes she is fully aware of what he stands for, including ssm and the rejection of the Apostles Creed. 😲😥

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  11. First controversy already.

    “The award-winning principal of a prestigious Brisbane school has been sensationally ousted amid allegations of a “toxic clash” with the powerful Anglican Church, including over payment of compensation to historic victims of child sexual abuse.

    Paul Browning, headmaster of St Paul’s School in Bald Hills, will finish up on Friday after a “spectacular implosion” of his relationship with Anglican Bishop Jeremy Greaves and the Anglican Schools Commission (ASC), of which he is chair.

    Deputy Premier and former student Steven Miles on Thursday weighed in on the furore surrounding the dismissal of St Paul’s School principal Paul Browning – saying he felt “confusion and disappointment”.

    The school council – which had unanimously endorsed Dr Browning’s contract renewal for another five years from 2024 – has also been dramatically sacked by the Church.

    Insiders told The Courier-Mail that Dr Browning’s commitment to refunding the tuition fees of former students sexually abused at St Paul’s during the 1980s and 1990s – long before his 2008 appointment – was a trigger for the hostilities.”

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  12. Regarding your LNP friend it shows that people care about how things are said and do not pay attention to what they say. Silver tongues and all that. No wonder antichrists can – and will – find it easy to deceive even faithful, practising Christians.

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  13. Found a new essay by a leftist online (your site won’t let me link to it but here’s the key part:
    ‘Progressive Christianity looks paradoxical only right now, because progressives are secular and conservatives are religious. After the progressive movement will re-invent Christianity (if we will succeed in doing it), we will retroactively look back on this and reinterpret the entire past as leading up to that moment. This is my dialectical Hegelian-Marxian analysis… The big Other, the absolute, which we named God up to our times, dies twice. This shall be done not only at an individual level, but also at a collective level… In other words, Christian Socialism will also be Christian Atheist Socialism. The only way to kill the far-right is to follow their religion to the letter up until its death, until its spirit (“object petit a”, for Lacan) is set free. This is a pragmatic utopianism, a return from Marx and back to Hegel, a moderately temperate radicalism. Christianity and Atheism are irreconcilable only in this present moment in history. Christian Atheism is a paradox only because we live in the current historical conditions we live in. That’s why Christian Atheism is the progressive/revolutionary position here, not in spite of but precisely because it’s a paradox (a paradox right now). The paradox must be gradually accelerated.’

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  14. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was the Brisbane Anglicans’ end game all along, given what we know of the beliefs and politics of people like Peter Catt.

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  15. I haven’t seen this mentioned here but Peter Catt said he was agnostic about euthanasia when Palaszczuk passed those laws. Also claimed he would consider ending his own life through it in some circumstances. Dangerous talk that could encourage others to terminate their lives from a guy who also claimed he was prepared to chain himself to logging equipment (he didn’t) , actively supports peace groups (he doesn’t) and would allow refugees to have right of sanctuart in his cathedral (he didn’t).
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/anglican-church-elder-agnostic-on-voluntary-dying-law/news-story/a243fecd9d1056597c360e4828584395?amp&nk=837089758d580bc425957e3ff11c95c5-1706007110
    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/have-some-courage-newman-tells-lnp-to-take-a-stand-on-euthanasia-20210421-p57l8a.html

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  16. I was curious why so many of you were mentioning a small country Anglican church like St Mary’s Kilcoy. I just looked at the Kilcoy Wikipedia page. Yikes.
    “St Mary’s Anglican Church is at 67 William Street.[48] It is notable for its liberalism and gay-friendly Anglo-Catholic churchmanship. It maintains a close relationship with the Roman Catholic Church.[49] The parish’s last two priests have been females and one trainee minister has been gay. Under one of these priests, the church has adopted Progressive Christianity and Jesuit spirituality.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kilcoy,_Queensland&oldid=1204392992

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    1. Maleny’s just as bad. Bird is the current priest-in-charge though she is leaving in October. Tiffany Sparks was the guest preacher last week and Barraclough will be next Sunday. I know someone who used to go to that church. Has been very Progressive Christianity-oriented for a long time now. 🙁

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    2. I can tell you some more about Saint Mary’s Anglican Church in Kilcoy. I have a friend there.

      Saint Mary’s Kilcoy used to be a reasonably good church. It was a traditional Anglo-Catholic parish but there was some factionalism and parochialism between the parish’s Kilcoy and Woodford sites. It all went downhill when they obtained their first female priest-in-charge, Jeanette Jamieson (now Jeanette Jamieson-Foard). Kilcoy adopted a Progressive Christianity theology under her. Of course, she could not do it alone. She was abetted by the parish council, particularly a woman named Margaret Pearson, who was one of the powerbrokers in the church. She was a disgruntled former Lutheran who had adopted liberal Anglo-Catholicism.

      There were a lot of problems after this. Money raised for one particular charity and given to the parish council in trust were instead used for different purposes without the consultation or consent of the people who raised it.

      The parish website, which was created by a volunteer, was deemed too conservative (even though it quoted Archbishops of Canterbury and Church Doctors, something you’d think Anglo-Catholics would like). One issue was it had a moral issues section in which homosexuality was condemned. The website volunteer was apparently a Calvinist as he was an evangelical Anglican originally from Tasmania which is anaethema to them. Pearson therefore took it upon herself to shut the volunteer’s entire internet account without his consent. He therefore lost his emails and other charity websites he was running too whilst he was on holidays interstate. Without his email he was unable to contact people or do business while away.

      Saint Mary’s Kilcoy was also very hostile towards Gafcon. When it was raised, the parishioners vocally pronounced their allegiance to Canterbury (personified at that time by, of course, the liberal Anglo-Catholic Rowan Williams.)

      Another issue – and the killer for my contact – was the parishioners’ hostility towards the Royal Commission into Institutional Response to Child Abuse. They wanted these issues kept swept under the carpet. They would rather let victims suffer then to let these scandals be exposed to light, lest the church’s reputation suffer. (Of course Anglican Church Southern Queensland’s reputation was already damaged beyond repair but they had their heads buried in the sand over this).

      The church did have an openly gay trainee priest at one point and he was welcomed with open arms by the parishioners although he was ultimately not ordained for reasons unknown.

      Jeanette Jamieson-Foard is now long gone and Saint Mary’s Kilcoy now has another woman priest, Jilleen Chambers. My contact says things have improved immeasurably there since the rampant bullying is gone but there is still factionalism in the parish. They are still liberal in so far as they support women priests, gay marriage and oppose GAFCON.

      Saint Mary’s Kilcoy is a wealthy parish and it is still able to fund its own priest so don’t expect it to merge with Toogoolawah or Glasshouse in the immediate future though it seems inevitable that eventually these large rural parishes will combine and there will be roaming area priests as happens in most other places.

      Someone mentioned earlier in this discussion about the very low levels of Biblical literacy at Saint Mary’s Kilcoy and cited an example where one time no one at a church Bible meeting knew what predestination was. My source tells me this is true. There are very low levels of Biblical literacy there. The parishioners basically just follow whatever the priest tells them. Of course this led to huge problems when Jeanette Jamieson led them straight into heresy with her program of Progressive Christianity. They just blindly followed her while the few that objected were ostracised by Jeanette and her main parish council faction.

      Someone else summed it up well earlier in this discussion thread. They said that the parishioners at Saint Mary’s Kilcoy are politically very conservative but theologically very liberal. My friend said this hits the nail on the head perfectly. Rural types who have been exposed to nothing but Anglo-Catholicism for multiple generations – with its tolerance of ritual and homosexuality and blind obedience to authority (the bishops). This means it is a small stepping stone to more and more unbiblical ideas for these parishioners who are now willingly led down the Progressive Christianity path. If the bishops and clergy like Jeanette Jamieson authorise it, it is the way they blindly go. They have very little Biblical literacy or interest in gaining such literacy and have an innate hostility towards Gafcon and Biblical Christianity and a deep disdain for Calvinism as some kind of enemy. Of course, the bishops add fuel to the fire with their attacks on Sydney Anglicanism with its Calvinist theology.

      In small towns like Kilcoy and Woodford, you would think all denominations would work together but the Anglicans only have a close relationship with the Roman Catholics. In fact, they were the first parish in the Diocese to sign a formal relationship pact with the Catholics, something they are extremely proud of. They have no relationship whatsoever with Presbyterians or any of the other Bible-believing evangelical churches in the area so that shows how deep their Anglo-Catholicism runs and how little they have to do with Biblical churches. They fact they adopted women priests like Jeanette (and later Jilleen)and an openly-gay trainee like John without any demur also gives some insight into their liberalism even before Jeanette took them down her Progressive path.

      So there you have it – ritualism, a close relationship with Catholics, disdain for Gafcon and Calvinism, low levels of Bible literacy and little interest in the Bible, cronyism and bullying, illegal conduct, misappropriation of funds, liberalism present even before the arrival of Jeanette Jamieson, a blind adherence to the bishops’ teachings even when they go against the Bible, a veneer of being welcoming, support for women priests and openly gay priests, a desire to cover up the child abuse to protect the reputation of the Diocese… These are the key problems with Saint Mary’s Kilcoy as I understand them. Now you can see why the Parish of Kilcoy is held in such low regard. It is not a friendly, small, conservative rural parish as you might instinctively assume but part of the wider trend towards liberalism on the Sunshine Coast hinterland and theologically closely aligned to the other liberal parishes up there like Maleny and Buderim.

      Their congregations are ageing drastically though. Woodford is mainly kept open because the op shop is a cash cow for the parish. Eventually Saint Mary’s Kilcoy will have to merge and become part of a rural regional parish and it would have happened long before now but for their wealth.

      It is a very sad story and it shows the need for Bible literacy and good doctrinal teaching from a young age so that ordinary parishioners can know when a priest and parish council are leading them astray and either stand up to them or walk away and find another denomination.

      I would advise anyone – as would my friend – to stay well away from Saint Mary’s Kilcoy and its heterodox beliefs find a good, Biblical, doctrinally-sound church elsewhere in the region lest they be caught up in bad teaching and also the parish’s cultural issues such as bullying and the parish council’s alleged misconduct.

      That’s all I know about Saint Mary’s Kilcoy but it is not a pretty picture.

      Reply

      1. There was more going on in Kilcoy than that. An elderly parishioner was publicly scorned, pastoral care duties were neglected, Bible studies were only held at times that suited the minister not the congregants, there was bullying and micro-management by the minister and so on. Money was spent extravagantly and inappropriately too.

        Regarding the website we think they were jealous of the web administrator because he knew a lot about theology. He was also a conservative Calvinist as you stated and Jamieson and Pearson were extremely liberal. In Pearson’s case her liberalism was in reaction to her conservative Lutheran upbringing.

        Pearson she and Jamieson formed a liberal clique and ruled the roost. (Pearson died of breast cancer earlier this year by the way.)

        It seemed like there was a concerted effort to drive Biblical Anglicans away and effect cultural change so that the parish adopted Progressive Christianity.

        It is very sad when these things happen to a church.

      2. Hmmm. I’ve spent quite a but of time in rural Anglican parishes like this so here’s my 2 cents. Most people just go with the flow. They think turning up to church on Sunday is what gets them into heaven. They don’t do any independent Bible study or worry much about God at all the other six days of the week. This going with the flow mentality of agreeing with whatever doctrine the minister spouts is exacerbate in historically Anglo-Catholic dioceses like Southern Queensland where there is an almost-groveling attitude of deference to authority. If the priest or the bishops says it it must be right and we will accept it. This is how we have conservative country folk accepting women priests and progressive theology in places like this.

        These congregations can be very insular and have “hive minds” too so if someone has Calvinist beliefs they might be on the outer even though they are the orthodox ones and it is in fact the priest who is at fault.

        I’m not justifying the bullying – it is absolutely disgusting and unchristian, especially illegal acts like accessing someone’s personal internet account – and a priest mistreating an elderly woman is also beyond the pale – but I can see how things like this can happen with what I know about the dynamics of these rural parishes. It is very depressing but that is the way they are.

        Having a bad priest(ess) there setting up cliques would have exacerbated the insular nature of the church community if she was deciding who was “in” and whose theology made them an outsider.

        Kilcoy and Woodford are growth areas and there are new subdivisions going in as we speak so over time they will become a bit less insular. The older entrenched insular community will be swamped by new comers and the culture of these places will change.

      3. Yes the Anglican Parish of Kilcoy is liberal Anglo-Catholic these days like all the other ones on the Sunshine Coast. 🙁 Jeanette Jamieson is very progressive and her successor at Kilcoy, Jilleen Chambers, is quite liberal too. 🙁

        You’d have to go further out west to Dalby or Roma, to really escape the theologically liberal parishes. Saint Mary’s Kilcoy is liberal despite its rural locale.

  21. The Brisbane Progressive Christianity crowd now deny you have to be born again because “you were born just fine the first time” and “you are fundamentally good” in their latest post.
    https://m.facebook.com/pcnqld
    Progressive Christianity is showing itself to be fundamentally anti-Christ now in that its teachings are diametrically opposite those of Jesus of Nazareth.

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  22. The Brisbane Anglican clergy feel like they can do whatever they want . They’ve rejected the Bible so there is no yardstick to hold them accountable to. They constantly shift the goalposts to excuse themselves of their misconduct.

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  23. It is very heartening to see people speak out about the huge problems in Anglican Church Southern Queensland on this site. I have felt like a voice in the wilderness for a long time.

    I haven’t seen anyone mention this transcriot quote yet:

    “DR PETER CATT, ANGLICAN DEAN OF BRISBANE: We’re trying to celebrate a version of the Christian faith that is about people flourishing, about inclusion, about people finding their place in community. ”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-31/losing-faith-citipointe-controversy/101599654

    I have heard other Progressive Christianity priests in Brisbane use the same boilerplate spiel. Of course, these are all codewords for welcoming homosexuals. Traditional protestants and Bible-believing Christiabs aren’t going to feel included in a church the promotes same-sex marriage, promotes the teachings of Ignatius of Loyola and the Jesuuts of all people, and undermines the Bible and Christs’s teachings. Orthodox Protestants are most definitely made to feel unwelcome, deliberately so, in fact, in order to drive them away and welcome woke and gay progressive “Christians” in.

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  25. Sorry to hear of your ezperiences Sarah. Yes promoting same-sex marriage, undermining the Bible, criticising the very notion that doctrines exist and are important, attacking the Ten Commandments and quoting Jesuit leaders are not very good ways to make Protestants feel “included” or “welcome” in your church.

    Also I knew the victim in the “Robin Goodfellow” case had alleged Aspinall goaded him into spending the night with the paedo but I didn’t realise Goodfellow himself had made the same allegation:
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/commission-names-tas-sex-offender/fvb9x11vf

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  26. I also know fron someone from at Saint Paul’s Ipswich all the pain and suffering that was caused when their priest, Steve McMahon, “transitioned” to Selina McMahon and the way Anglican Church Southern Queensland spun the story and silenced dissent. It pains me to say the Diocese is a deeply unchristian institution.

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  27. Good to see this discussion revived. I’ve been reading Peter Catt’s latest posts on the A Progressive Christian Voice Australia page. In the latest one he writes, “Likewise, in the 1920’s there was an increasing toleration, even celebration, of the diversity of human sexuality, which would be crushed in the 1930’s.”

    I can only assume here he is talking about the Weimar Republic vs Nazi Germany. Does he really celebrate the moral depravity of Weimar Berlin?! He is even more extreme than I thought he was.

    For those of you who were wondering very early on in this discussion if Peter Catt is a Christian pacifist, I’d say not based on a post a little further down the page. He says, “For the first half of my life our nation heeded the ANZAC Day call to be peacemakers and more often than not our soldiers went into theatres of war to be part of peace-keeping missions.” He implies he approves of this use of the military but as he then goes on not our more aggressive, bellicose approach in recent wars and the jingoism and nationalism of modern ANZAC Days. Therefore he does support military force in peace-keeping situations.

    Both posts can be found towards the top here:
    https://m.facebook.com/AProgressiveChristianVoiceAustralia/?wtsid=rdr_0fGcejaZfqdwm4F8T

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    1. I have read a few articles by Catt in which he attacks nationalism. It is a little ironic that he is part of a national church. In that regard, the internationalist catholicity of the Church of Rome would be more to his liking. Unfortunately, they would never approve of his extreme liberalism.

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    2. In that post, Catt is also pushing the Da Vinci Code-style conspiracy theory that the Bible was edited at some stage to cover up the existence of women priests in the early church!

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    3. Let’s not forget the child pr*st*tution was also prolific in the Weimar Republic. 🙁 You’d think Catt would steer well clear of even the vaguest hint of that given church scandals in recent years. I honestly hope that wasn’t one of the things he was implying. At any rate, he definitely seems to be inferring the Weimar Republic. No other society fits the bill.

      In a way, he is being honest though and he should get plaudits for that. Progressive Christianity’s notion of an afterlife is so vague and wishy-washy all they can hope for is political reform on this earth. To take Catt’s beliefs to their logical conclusion the Weimar Republic would be the closest to a utopia on earth for their theology, even though the rest of us see it as a sick and depraved society. The Weimar Republic is where Progressice Christianity leads. It is the best “paradise” they can hope for. At least they are being honest here that that is all they have to offer as their form of utopia.

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  28. “The Brisbane Progressive Christianity crowd now deny you have to be born again because “you were born just fine the first time” and “you are fundamentally good” in their latest post.
    https://m.facebook.com/pcnqld
    Progressive Christianity is showing itself to be fundamentally anti-Christ now in that its teachings are diametrically opposite those of Jesus of Nazareth.”

    I agree that this marks a turning point in that the progressive christians are no longer simply twisting or downplaying scripture but outright refuting it and directly and shamelessly opposing what Christ taught. In that, you are right, they are indeed antichrists.

    Of course this is all to justify homosexuality again. If you are “born that way” they think you have no need to change this part of your “identity” and, indeed, you should be “proud” of it. Hence, being born again in a spiritual sense and casting off the old sinful self is anaethema to homosexuals and their fellow-travellers in the identity politics movement. This is a rubicon-crossing moment though if Anglican Church Southern Queensland now openly opposes some of Christ’s teachings and does not even try to hide it.

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    1. Yes, a lot of the appeal of progressive Christianity seems to be about allowing same-sex attracted priests justify their lifestyle and women priests justifying being in the pulpit when both are expressly forbidden by scripture. Therefore they eliminate scripture and traditional teachings from the equation altogether.

      lt is also presumably about seeking esteem in the sight of this world by conforming to its morals rather than seeking eternal glory.

      The huge backlash from Christians globally to the gay choreographer’s trans Last Supper tableaux at the Olympucs shows they are bit winning though. Traditional Christianity is still strobg so take heart. These weirdo and pervert priests with their heresy are still in the minority.

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  29. Yes and besides ‘Selina’ the trans priest, Gregory Jenks has been working out of Ipswich as a locum lately too.

    He managed to recently give a sermon that was simultaneously pro-Palestinian:

    “The empire always strikes back, as the people of Gaza know all too well.”

    and pro-Aboriginal animism:

    “Underneath our buildings, roads and concrete pavements is the sacred soil of the Yaggera nation.

    We breath their air, we drink their water, and we enjoy their trees and we admire their mountains.

    It always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

    [edited for brevity]

    There is much for which we say sorry and much for us to learn from the dark-skinned prophets of this place about living well on this sacred land.”

    https://gregoryjenks.com/2024/07/06/being-on-country/?amp=1

    I’m not sure if this sermon from earlier in the year is heretical but it sounds a bit Mormon to a layman like me:

    “Rather, the transformation process is about becoming more and more like God until we are the same as God.

    By the time our knowledge of God is perfect—which presumably is in the next life for most of us—we shall be like God because we shall see/understand God’s true character.”

    https://gregoryjenks.com/2024/04/06/radical-transformation/?amp=1

    He goes to tiwn in this last one, citing Aboriginal wisdom:

    “Yes, the church has a back story.

    Of course, that back story is not as venerable as the stories of our First Nations, but like the much more ancient stories of our Indigenous Peoples it is a story that reflects the wisdom of slow time”

    as well as non-canonical texts and high priest of Progressive Christianity, John Dominic Crossan.

    also:
    “Rather, we allow others the space to fashion the kind of Jesus afterlife that is most authentic for them, and—we hope—they allow us that same freedom as well.”

    https://gregoryjenks.com/2023/08/21/of-back-stories-and-afterlives/?amp=1

    Reply

  30. re: Steve

    Yes, it sounds like Peter Catt subscribes to “Just War Theory”, as opposed to “Holy War Theory” or Christian pacifism

    Regarding his other comment, yes he’s definitely referring to the Weimar Republic. Interesting that he compares Trump with Hitler at the end of his post as a threat to the liberated sexual culture he desires.

    Well, at least we know the end game of the Progressive Christians/Brisbane Anglicans now: they are striving for the emergence of a global culture reminiscent of that of Weimar Berlin. This goes beyond what I ever expected from them even in my wildest dreams even as I watched them become more and more extreme over the last fifteen years or so. They are utterly sick.

    Reply

    1. Yes Catt is pro-military and pro-military commemorations but critical of politicians, generals and warmongerers and using celebrations as masks.
      * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-09/catt-our-glorious-dead/4362748
      He definitely doesn’t say anything to intimate a pacifist stance other than a vague, general hope for peace.

      He and a lot of the usual suspects, many of who have been mentioned on here, are drafting an apology to the LGBTQ community on behalf of the diocese.
      *https://www.thegoodnewsblog.org/2023/12/anglican-church-southern-queensland.html?m=1

      Reply

    2. Yes that Weimar dream is beyond the pale.

      Regarding Trump, if he is re-elected let’s hope he can bring about some kind of cultural change and end the woke madness. I obviously don’t mean pink triangles and camps but there must be some nonviolent way for the leadership at the top to initiate a mass cultural change to end the moral decay of society and perversion of sexual ethics. Of course Trump hasn’t always been moral himself so setting a personal example from now on would be a very good start. Non-authoritarian, non-coercive ways to reform society’s morals are needed. Where America goes, Australia follows, so it would be of immeasurable benefit to our nation too and destroy the perverse plans of Peter Catt and his LGBT cronies.

      Reply

  31. @Steve — you’re right, he’s obviously talking about Weimar Germany there! He must think it would be a utopia for his gay friends. How did the Anglican church end up controlled by these perverts? I feel literally ill at the thought of this.

    Edit to add — I just had another terrible thought. Pastor Robertson I know Weimar Germany was permissive when it came to virtually every kind of moral depravity imaginable but what was it like when it came to p*dophilia and child p*rnography? He’s not hinting at that too is he? (I read an internet conspiracy theory not long ago that the + in LGBTQI+ implies p for p*do and that the gay lobby aims to eventually normalise this. I know people say slippery slope arguments are a false kind of reasoning but after seeing this post by Catt I don’t know what to think as he’s provided clear evidence he is prepared to sink very low into moral depravity.)

    Reply

      1. Thanks. That article indeed also mentions “p*rn… even images featuring underage models” as something prevalent in Weimar Germany. Indeed that culture was apparently even more depraved than I thought. It takes a strong stomach to read through the entire piece.

        Here is the thing, though. Catt doesn’t actually use the words Weimar, Germany or Hitler in the piece. I believe that is what they call “plausible deniability” on politics these days. We can tell that is what he is alluding to but it is all an inference on our part. Jumping from there to the implications – the full range of depravities that Weimar German culture entailed – is another inference on our part. If they did have a new Weimar culture would that include normalisation of acts and production of material involving children, just as the old Weimar culture did? Who knows. 🙁 No doubt they would defend themselves by saying I am reading too much into it as their plausible denial.

        There’s nothing in illegal there on what he said – just our conjecture – and nothing that could get him defrocked – even if all the bishops weren’t in favour of the progressive agenda anyway – because he is purposly being so vague. I hope at a minimum the Sydney Anglicans are aware of his post and what it may or may not infer. I don’t know who else I could turn to as he is not breaking the law to by making a vague statement and the powers that be in the Diocese all endorse the progressive christianity agenda anyway. I at leadt hope that people are watchful and cautious in case this is the progressives’ agenda.

      2. No, I think the inferences you made were fair and not alarmist, @Sarah.

        If Catt is implying he would like to see a return to the culture of sexual liberation found in Weimar Berlin, he should at least acknowledge that child exploitation was part of that culture.

      3. The article also talks about the violence in the Weimar Republic. In addition to what it describes there were the street battles between the Freikorps (and later the SA) and the communists.

        Jesus told us the end times would be like the days of Noah (violence) and the days of Sodom (sexual depravity) so perhaps the Weimar Republic is giving us a fresh forewarning of what is coming at the end.

  32. Every time I come to read updates on this thread I don’t think Anglican Church Southern Qnd can shock me any more onky to find they’ve sunk to a new depth of depravity I can scarcely comprehend. Now I find so-called Christians on here with the arrogance to refute the words of Christ Himself and a senior clergyman who thinks the Weimar Republic is a model of morality we should aspire to. I blame both Catt and his enablers (the bishops) who put him in that position of authority. They all should be defrocked. No wonder all the real Christians fled the Anglican Church long ago.

    Reply

  33. By disagreeing with Jesus on the need to be born again they are rejecting the doctrine of original sin and also implying that they don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God. In their view He seems to be a fallible rabbi or wisdom teacher.

    I wonder if Romans is speaking of a similar rejection of the deity of Jesus leading to perversion.

    Romans 1-
    “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,     and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    Also I haven’t seen this article about APCVA mentioned in this discussion. (Click transcript button to read.) I found it helped me a lot. https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/religionandethicsreport/a-new-22progressive-christian-voice22/4257608

    On Scripture-
    “Ray Barraclough: We would want to glean from the scriptural sources and the Christian tradition, that which enhances and protects and nurtures the lives of human beings. We would welcome for example, the insights from feminist scholars and the experience of women. Because you see women get hardly a voice in, in the biblical tradition. We also want to say, well look, there are good and bad influences shaping both the Christian tradition and the scriptures. The scriptures are great in terms of calling for justice and the option for the poor and those kind of things. But there’s also defence of honour killing in the scriptures and things like that. We want to draw those that are positive and that enhance and strengthen the lives of people in our modern world.”

    On the influence of liberation theology-
    1. “Ray Barraclough: Well one of the strands that does shape progressive Christianity is what we call liberation theology. And liberation theology is quite avowedly committed to Christian discipleship in the political sphere. We would endeavour to pick up the kind of emphases in the scriptures that we find there of God’s concern for justice—particularly for the poor, the oppressed, the marginalised…”

    2. “Ray Barraclough: Well certainly not liberation theology, because liberation theology grew out of the Catholic tradition. And the Catholic tradition is not individualistic. That’s Protestantism. But the Catholic heritage, they cannot think of Christianity without solidarity and community. And so the real key contributors, Leonardo Boff, Gutiérrez and others in the liberation theological stream brought that very strong commitment to community, both social community, namely society and Christian community.”

    On Catt’s vision-
    “Andrew West: Your president, the Rev. Dr Peter Catt, he’s quoted as saying that you want to try to view life from the future. Now this has a certain 1970s, New Age-ishness about it. I guess I’m trying to get an idea of the concrete values for which you’re going to stand.

    Ray Barraclough: Well I think the context for that is the fact that the church has in the last couple of decades, had to apologise publicly for a whole range of actions. In other words, the future has caught up with the church. And the church naturally as a venerable institution is also a slow-moving and conservative institution. Well what we’re saying is that, at times, we need to get out of that structure, that strand and look afresh at what we are really committing ourselves to…You had the primate of our church, Archbishop Phillip Aspinall apologising to those women who had to give up their children. Now, you know, that wouldn’t have been given in the 1950s, ’60s, and ’70s, whereas now, it needs to be given; but what a tragedy that that even happened. And so we are wanting to look again at the Christian tradition and the scriptures and say, well now, let’s look afresh at who is marginalised, who is being victimised in the name of godliness and morality and whatever that the Christian church may claim to have a special interest in.”

    I foind that insightful because I hadn’t made the connection between Liberation Theology and Progressive Christianity before. I explored Liberation Theology for a while as a kid before I firmly rejected it and the toxic politics it implied. It gives more insight into where these heretics are coming from though. It is interesting how they are distancing themselves ftom the Protestant strand of Anglicanism yoo.

    I saw another article by Catt where he described the Bible as a “centreing” object for the faith community to gather around, along with the altar and some other church objects. This again implies a very low view of scripture if its main utility is simply as a communal focal point.

    As for the Weimar comment: horrifying.

    Reply

    1. You sound like a man after my own heart. I grew up naturally leaning very conservative, religiously, morally and politically, but the Iraq War made me extremely disillusioned with the Right, given the lies and bloodshed propagated by the Republicans in the USA and the Howard Government here and their arrogant disregard of protesters and the way even some Christians were focused on supporting the troops and barely let out a whimper of protest about the injustice, not even in support of Iraqi Christians.

      I therefore became very liberal for a while and even supported liberation theology to an extent, not in the sense of violent Marxist rebellion but in the hope of nonviolent change and more focus on the social gospel and a reckoning for the injustices of the US empire in places like South America.

      I am now conservative once more having seen the hollowness of liberal theology and the danger and deceit of liberation theology and the hostility of the Left towards Christiams, even potential allies and having seen too many lies from the left-leaning media in this ccountry and overseas and wutnessed and experienced persecution from woke mobs on the Left, even towards potentual allies like me, who are not fully in tune with the groupthink.

      So now I am fully back where I belong on the Right despite my disgust with Bush, Cheney, John Howard and co. If nothing else, I am grateful to Trump for purging the Republican Party of the neocons, even if he was entirely self-serving in doing so. He is by far the lesser evil compared with them. I have never seen or heard a single Liberal politician here repent and apologise for Iraq though which deeply hurts me.

      Seeing the lies and deceit of the religious Left with this nutty, wholly fabricated progressive religion ajd witnessing the hurt and suffering irlt is causing in congregations and to individuals assures me I have made the right choice in my clstance.

      Reply

      1. Yes I can understand that. Better Trump then Liz Cheney continuing her father’s reign of terror.

      2. I can empathise with this. At least in Britain some Labour politicians stood up to Blair over Iraq and crossed the floor. Here not a single Coalition member did.

        Pastor Robertson knows former Deputy Prime Minister and National Security Council member John Anderson and believes him to be a genuine Christian as far as he can humanly judge. Yet not even Anderson has apologised for Iraq.

        In fact, to my way of thinking, it would have been better if they’d just been honest and said they wre invading the cointry to force a regime change in line with neocon ideology and in order to plunder oil, instead of the whole weapons of mass destruction charade and pretending the war was just, as if any war ever is.

        Speaking of John Anderson, one point where I actually agree with Catt – though probably for different reasons – is on the danger of nationalism because it can become an idol. Anderson attempted to introduce legislation whereby it would have become illegal to “desacralise the Australian flag”. Irrespective of where one stands on this issue, whether you agree with Mr Anderson that the national flag should be respected or whether you think protestors have a right to burn it as an expression of free speech, the use of the term “desacralise” leaves me deeply disturbed as it implies the flag is in some way sacred or worthy of veneration. It is a national symbol but the nation-state is not a god.

        Anyway I haven’t been able to bring myself to vote for the Coalition since Iraq on principal either so I normally just lodge a protest vote with whichever obscure independent is running in my seat which is a shame because the Howard era tax reforms really helped my family enormously so I do feel I have a personal debt of gratitude to that government.

        It is strange to think that the Liberals have traditionally been the Protestant party and Labor has traditionally been Catholic when today’s leftists have an ingrained hostility to anyone remotely Leftist as you found out, @RepentantBloke. I do wonder how today’s Catholic voters bring themselves to vote for Labor when the party’s social ethics policies are diametrically opposed to what the Roman Church believes on issues like abortion and euthanasia. Do Catholics have the same moral struggles over their vote because of these issues as we Protestants do over the Coalition’s warmongering and love of the armed services?

        Pastor Robertson, please feel free to pass on these humble musings of a fellow Christian to Mr Anderson when you next speak to him if you think they are worthy of his attention.

        To get back on topic I also wonder what conservative Christian politicians make of the nuttiness of the Brisbane Anglicanism. Does Anderson have a take on this issue? Clearly they have moved a long, long way from being the “Tory Party at prayer” to their current woke far left position under Aspinall and Greaves. How do conservative State or Federal governments deal with such an idiosyncratic church when it is large enough to still wield a certain amount of power amd is still seen as the church of the establishment to a certain extent? (At least we can be grateful it is not a state church in this country. Imagine them holding real power and the damage they would do. Come to think of it, also imagine what it would be like if we had a political system more like that of the UK and these bishops were running amok in the House of Lords.) 🙁

      3. Interesting thoughts, @sarah. Perhaps John Anderson can write a guest post on here or do an interview one day, @TheWeeFlea.

        I definitely wpuld very much like to hear his responses to these kinds of moral questions stemming from his time in office. Other moral issues such as those pertaining to refugees like the children overboard allegations and Siev X would also be worth discussing with him. Obviously he discussed these things in the mainstream media at the time but it would be very good to hear him discuss them in a Christian forum and in the light of Christian ethics.

        Regarding Iraq, for Australia, the war was all about supporting the Americans so that they won’t renege on the Anzus Treaty. No Australian politician had the backbone to stand up to Bush and his NeoCon cronies for fear of losing Anzus.

        The price for this was paid by the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, including the destruction of the country’s Christian community.

        I really do honestly wonder how politicians like Mr Anderson sleep at night over this. As a fellow Christian, I hope he has sincerely repented and prayed for forgiveness for his own soul’s sake. 🙁

        Are Coalition strategists aware of how badly tarnished the party’s image is in the eyes of many Christian voters, even up to the present day, over Iraq? 🙁 They alienated many potential Protestant supporters whose natural political home would otherwise have been in the LNP.

  34. So Peter Catt wants the world to be engulfed in a Weimar style morality does he? That man is sicker than I thought.

    And he claims to be a Christian. Well, if a man can be a woman these days just by identifying as one, I suppose Catt can be a Christian just by saying so too.

    And this podcast might be of interest. Catt and guests are discussing the idea of unitive consciousness which is the Buddhist and Taoist concept that we and everything in the universe are all one.

    https://omny.fm/shows/on-the-way/on-the-way-episode-2-dom-fay-peter-catt-and-richar

    In other words more syncretist new age claptrap being injected into Christianity by these heretics.

    What would Catt’s ideal world be like? Total moral perversion mixed with Green-Marxist flavoured social justice topped with a postmodernist, ritualistic, syncretist religion to bond society together. It really does sound like something the Devil himself has forged to destroy Christian morality. Heaven help us if his vision of society is ever realised in full.

    Reply

  35. You’re right. There’s no respect at all for Christ’s words among the Progressive Christians. Reverend Deborah Bird posted this rewrite of the Lord’s Prayer:

    https://m.facebook.com/revdeborahbird/videos/our-mother-who-is-in-heaven-and-within-uswe-call-upon-your-namesyour-wisdom-come/992498382165629/

    Weaponising and twisting God’s words in the name of gender politics. Vile.

    As for the person on Facebook who argued that we didn’t need to be born again in that meme, they are so arrogant they believe they know more than God Himself about how to enter His kingdom. It would almost be farcical if it weren’t so shocking and sad to see how badly our hubris and vanity and unwarranted faith in our own reason can blind us as human beings.

    Finally Catt’s praise of the 1920s [Weimar] sexual liberalism has finally exposed him for what he really stands for. Again hubris has taken its toll.

    This may all be a blessing in disguise. If anyone you know feels tempted to explore Progressive Christianity, just show them those posts and memes so they can see what the endpoint is and what the leaders of this movement are really pushing for. It is certainly far more shockibg than I ever imagined.

    God bless.

    Reply

  37. I was reading a good interview earlier tonight which identified Progressive Christianity as part of the woke cultural movement.

    Reply

    1. Right, that explaind a lot, including the allegations of bullying of parishioners by progressive clergy on here if progressive christianity is a clerical manifestation of woke culture.

      Reply

    1. Thank you. That is the best article I have ever read on the phenomenon and it gives great context to help me understand.

      It explains the heresy of progressive christianity from its rejection of the Biblical Jesus and substitution of a different Christ to its infusion of new age nuttiness and disdain for the Bible and our traditional church culture to the reasons why this pseudo-religion has been fabricated to its scoffing arrogance and the reasons for its outright boldfaced lies about the resurrection, the Bible and the person of Jesus. Something so intellectual vacuous and built on outright lies and distortions cannot possibly stand for long. It gives me great hope that this dark period in church history will soon be gone.

      Reply

      1. It is ironic. Progressive Christianity emerged from the Jesus Seminar which was supposedly a search for the historical Jesus (even though it was agenda-driven nonsense from the outset). Instead of restoring the historical Jesus, the Progressive Christians have ended up fabricating a blatantly a-historical, unBiblical one in their own image. 🙁

    3. That article is excellent. Thank you.

      It answers most of my questions but it leaves me with one big one. Since these people know they are adopting a new, man-made religion does that mean they believe all religions – including orthodox Christianity – are man-made constructs? Why else wouod they reject the Christ of the Bible for this politically correct new Christ they have knowingly constructed unless they believe the Biblical Christ is man-manufactured myth too? 🙁 In that case they were never truly saved in the first place. May God have mercy on their souls.

      Reply

    4. Brilliant piece. It clears up a lot of questions I had too about the origins of this movement. It also shows how completely empty and superficial it all is. Thank u 4 sharing.

      Reply

      1. Yes that piece is full of anachronisms and mistruths. Early Christians did not read the Gospels solely as an allegory or metaphor. They may have done so as an additional reading but they always held to the literal reading and the belief it was an historical account as their foundation. His “metaphor-only” interpretation would be alien to the writers of the Gospels and their first audiences. He is ontroducing an entirely anachronistic interlretative method.

        Also, to call ot a new reformation is wildly misleading. The reformation was a return to the historical sources and an honest reading of them. This is a twisting and rejection of sources because they don’t say what the progressives want or because they don’t conform to modern science or to modern moral and cultural norms. This is an anti-intellectual counter-reformation if anything, burying the text under blatantly false interpretive frameworks and obscurantist arguments and keeping it distant from the laity. At least the progressives are showing their hand though.

        In summary, what he has written is, I am sorry to say, absolute drivel.

  41. Thanks for this discussion. I feel betrayed by the Diocese. It was supposed to be caring for our souls and instead it has imperilled them.

    This has all been because of the hubristic behaviour of these heretics, false teachers and bullies who are more intent on feeding their own egos, undermining traditional teachings and playing politics than being our shepherds.

    Reply

    1. Amen!

      I tremble to think of how these priests will account for themselves and the sheep in their charge on the Day of Judgement . They are deliberately spreading a different gospel and a different Christ and promoting wickedness and vice. May God protect any faithful Christians left in the Diocese from these wolves.

      Reply

    2. All very true based on my experiences with the shepherds of my local flock. A succinct summary of the problem.

      Please pray for our Diocese and the priests who are in denial of the truth and have been too busy playing politics to pastor their flocks.

      Dear Sovereign Heavey Father, in whom there is all Truth, please may these priests who are meant to be Your stewards of souls encounter the resurrected, Living Christ and repent of their false, manmade belief system so that they may be saved. May their hubris be humbled and may they learn not to trust in human wisdom but in revealed Truth. May they come to accept the doctrines found in God’s inerrant scriptures and may our Diocese be saved from the vanity, petty politics, bullying and false teachings that wrack it and, as said above, imperil parishioners’ souls. Make us discerning and diligent in detecting and rejecting false teachings so this never happens again.

      In the name of Your Son,

      Amen.

      Reply

    3. That is how I feel too. Since leaving Anglican Church Southern Queensland I have been going to a Bible-believing church. You wouldn’t believe in the difference in attitude between the progressive Anglican priests I have known and the pastors I have now. They are polar opposites. Gone are the vainglorious leftist autocrats, pompous gloryseekers, politicians and cold bullies of the progressive Christian/liberal Anglo-Catholic world.

      My pastors now are warm, caring and faithfully adhere to the teachings of the Bible. They are genuinely concerned about the welfare of their parishioners both in terms of their bodily needs (pastoral care for the sick and elderly) and their souls (promotion of sound doctrine, preaching salvation through faith alone in Christ alone) and an emphasis on the cross as substitutional atonement and the historical reality of the bodily resurrection of Christ. The pastors are humble labourers in the vineyard not seeking to puff themselves up but instead seeking to save lost souls, tend to their flock, preach repentance for sin and the morality of the narrow path to salvation and tend to the spiritually ill, the troubled and the lost. What a difference when you teach the Bible literally, humbly, and authentically and let the Christ live in your heart and teach doctrinal truth, not identity politics, empty ritualism, halfbaked mysticism and manmade religion. Their sincere love for the Christ of the Bible shines through. These are the very people the Brisbane Anglicans deride as “fundamentalists” yet these are the ones truly living their faith in compassion for their fellow man, welcomeness and love while the Anglicans are all hypocritical talk, their words and actions never aligning. I pray for a turn to Scripture in Brisbane, a sincere turn, not the fabricated new interoretations of the progressive Anglicans. I pray for revival.

      Reply

    4. re: the bullying, I once read about a strategy to drive orthodox Christians from the church because they are perceived as bigots who make homosexuals feel unwelcome because of their Biblical morality. The idea was to make orthodox Christians uncomfortable so they would leave and the rump in the church would be the liberal-minded Christians and then, longer time, gays and other liberals would come to replace those who left and build up the numbers again.

      This wasn’t some crazy conspiracy theory. This was actually in a strategy paper for liberal church growth I read.

      Reply

  42. That is the crux of the matter.

    They didn’t really care about children during the p*edo scandals. They don’t really care about parishioners’ mental health with their bullying and lies and politicking and grandstanding. They don’t really care about the eternal salvation of parishioner’s souls because they are pushing their made-up trendy new religion of progressive christianity with its false Jesus and rejection of Biblical doctrines. They don’t really care about us at all. Thank you for showing us your real nature Philip Aspinall, Jeremy Greaves, Peter Catt, Moira Evers, Jeanette Jamieson-Foard, Ray Barraclough, Tiffany Sparks, Jo Inkpin, Steve/Selina, Gregory Jenks and all the rest of your ilk who have done nothing but promote false teachings, a different Christ and immorality in your pursuit of personal glory. You have disgraced your office and utterly failed the parishioners whom God entrusted to you. Hang your heads in shame.

    Reply

    1. The male priests have squandered the many great treasures they have been given-
      -the Scriptures
      -knowledge of Christ
      -the privilege and awesome responsibility of shepherding God’s people

      all by denying the Truth and preaching another gospel.

      The female priests have done likewise but they have done so while also usurping positions in the church that God hss expressly forbidden them to hold.

      Wolves and false teachers indeed! It breaks my heart.

      Reply

    2. I’ll never forget this report.
      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/09/brisbane-archbishop-told-abuse-victim-to-ditch-sinful-path-of-litigation-inquiry-told

      Regarding pacifism, I doubt Bshp Greaves is one either. At the very least he held a special ANZAC celebration at his church.
      https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/sunshine-coast/church-to-host-special-service-for-our-lost-anzacs/news-story/db0bc274ff2348d2807667e39165db51

      Pacifism and questions about the morality of war don’t seem to be on the progressive christianity agenda at all.

      There’s a good critique of the Brisbane progressives priests’ book by a Moore College lecturer here.
      https://markdthompson.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-once-and-future-scriptures.html?m=1

      Reply

  43. @Queensland Ex-Anglican,

    Thank you for putting down in print what many former Brisbane Anglicans I know often say. Your sentiment is very widely shared.

    I pray for the church.

    God bless.

    Reply

  44. Yes. Here’s another article on the same official progressive christianity website where you found yours —

    https://progressivechristianity.org/resource/resurrection-fact-or-fantasy/

    This progressive christian denies the resurrection of the dead in general and of Christ in particular.

    To cite a few of his statements —

    A — “Progressive thinking is often considered heresy because it questions doctrines such as a god living above us or physical resurrections.”

    Comment — In that case no wonder that the progressive priestess, Jeanette Jamieson, mentioned earlier in this forum rejects the notion of doctrine.

    B — “Nor can we forget that the story of Jesus was primarily written by Jewish writers who had a habit of hiding truth in fairy tales. The surface stories were usually totally fabricated… So many stories in the Bible are metaphors wrapped in fairy tales.”

    Comment — Leaving aside the fact that the term “fairy tale” is an anachronism when talking about this period, the early church – including the initial *Jewish* audience, did NOT read the Gospels in this way. They read it literally. Some schools of interoretation read it metaphorically *in addition to* the literal meaning. No one denied it was a record of historical events. That is again anachronistic.

    In this same passage, the writer conflates the distinct story telling style of the parables with the main Gospel narrative. His idea seems to be that stories like the Prodigal Son are parables within the larger overall parable of the Gospel itself. This is simply false.

    C — “Let’s not forget that the first time a story about Jesus’s resurrection appeared in writing was in the ninth decade CE, or about fifty years after Jesus was executed.”

    Comment — This is simply false too. The latest research indicates some of the Gospels appeared much earlier.

    D — “What’s your take? Shall we move ahead with the twenty-first-century reformation and leave the literalists behind, or should we wait until they see the light?”

    Comment — Leaving aside the breathtakingly arrogant tone demonstrated by the writer throughout this piece and exemplified by this quote here, progressive christianity is anything but a reformation. It is more like an anti-intellectual counter-reformation, attacking the Scriptures the Reformers relied upon and introducing new interpretations that woukd have been unknown to the Jewish authors of the New Testament and the initial audiences of these texts in the early church.

    The author of this article is, quite simply, a charlatan spreading easily-debunked falsehoods to a gullible audience. I have rarely read anything do blatantly deceitful and written in such a hubristic tone but this seems par for the course for the members ofthis strange heretical movement, especially here in Brisbabe Anglican circles, sadly.

    Reply

    1. That’s another really, really good article.

      That poor minister, my heart goes out to him! 🙁

      The article again confirms what people have already said throughout this thread about the downgrading of Scripture, Aspinall using these progressive priests as his mouthpieces to keep his own hands clean, and the rejection of traditional doctrines, including the bodily resurrection of our Lord and Saviour, in the Diocese. 🙁

      Thank you to this brave minister for speaking out and confirming what we already suspected. I hope his Southern Cross parish continues to grow.

      Reply

      1. Yes, it sounds like Archbishop Aspinall has deliberately surrounded himself with all of these weirdoes and cranks from the Progressive Christianity movement so that they will fire his shots for him and further his agenda while he gets away scot-free.

        Even now Jeremy Greaves is just his puppet while Aspinall moves to the background.

        It has the makings of a comic satire – Machiavellian manipulator archbishop surrounded by a bunch of absolute nutters who are constantly trying to curry favour with him, none of whom actually believe in anything remotely approaching orthodox Christian beliefs. Yes, it would be comical – if there weren’t souls at stake. 🙁

    2. That is another insightful piece about the machinations in the diocese.

      The Rev’s testimony provides further evidence that the Diocese of Brisbane no longer holds to Christian doctrine.

      Reply

    3. Brilliant article. I hope the Diocese does not try to sue him. 🙁

      “The rejection of the scriptures: well, we’ve heard about that in terms of the quote from the archbishop, the rejection of the virgin birth, the rejection of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. All of this stuff was acceptable in our diocese. In the Anglican Church of Southern Queensland, those were acceptable deviations.”

      Yes way too liberal for me. The rejection of the bodily resurrection is the dealbreaker. I do not think they are a Christian church anymore. 🙁

      Reply

  50. Truth is lies and lies are the truth. In the latest APCVA Facebook post, Barraclough is using the Bible (which the Progressives don’t believe in) to try to guilt people into accepting a false political narrative regarding Aborigines and “truth-telling”.

    https://m.facebook.com/AProgressiveChristianVoiceAustralia/?wtsid=rdr_0fGcejaZfqdwm4F8T

    The good thing is they are so ham-fisted in pushing their biased, far-ledt agendas that you could never take them seriously. Trying to weaponise God’s Word to push a certain political agenda, especially one based on proven falsehoods created by the huge money-making machine that is the Aboriginal welfare industry, is just obscene though. Do not bear false witness is one of the commandments.

    God is above left and right and the kingdoms of this world, something progressive christians seem to regularly forget.

    Reply

    1. Yes, I know pastors from other denominations who’ve spent decades working in remote Aboriginal settlements and they are appalled by the welfare industry, the Stolen Generation scam and the scale of the rorting. They said it was a huge eyeopener to see just how corrupt the whole thing is.

      Reply

      1. Nothing to do with Brisbane Anglicans but you might find this interesting. In the news today, a poor pastor is being sued for refusing to have a Welcome to Country an an Australian Christian Lobby event:

        https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/christian-preacher-to-be-dragged-before-qld-human-rights-commission-over-opposition-to-welcome-to-country-ceremony/news-story/41857961cf0c291254121ed72c69f1fa

        He discusses the Aboriginal grievance industry in the article. They are becoming too powerful and too arrogant like all the pushers of the woke agenda.

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