Ireland Regresses; Sunday, Bloody Sunday

There has been much rejoicing in Ireland over the result of a referendum. Large crowds gathered in Dublin city centre. A party was in full swing in Dublin Castle. Groups of cheering and clapping people were at the airport to cheer on those who had flown back especially to vote.

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“Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was also greeted by cheers when he arrived as was Ailbhe Smyth from the Together for Yes campaign. Supporters ate After Eight chocolates and popped bottles of Champagne while waiting for the result to be announced. Some supporters dressed as angels, while hundreds wore jumpers and T-shirts with campaign slogan.”

“A ‘quiet revolution’   “I want to reassure you that Ireland today is the same as it was last week, but more tolerant, open and respectful.”  Irish Prime Minister – Leo Varadkar

Imagine you had been away for a few months and returned to this scene. You would ask – what is the cause of this celebration and rejoicing? Why are people so happy? Why are they popping the bottles of champagne and rejoicing? What has made Ireland a more tolerant, open and respectful country?   Have they just become independent? Has Ireland been reunited? Did they just become the richest nation on earth? None of the above. This is really hard to grasp and understand but the reason for this celebration is that the Irish people voted overwhelmingly 2:1 to permit abortion on demand for any reason up to 12 weeks, and for various other reasons afterwards.

12-week-fetus
It is now legal to kill this baby for any reason in Ireland

Despite the efforts of this fine young Irish woman who in this clip expresses the case clearly.   “Ireland will have the right to kill disabled children in the womb before we have property facilities for disabled children out of the womb”

 

Let us suppose that you supported the right to abort a child – would you not regard it as a ‘necessary evil’ and mourn the fact that it had to happen at all?   In a civilized society, even if you regarded abortion as necessary, would this not be a day of solemnity and sorrow – even if you had received what you called the right vote?

But to dance in the streets because you had just given mothers the right to kill their own unborn child is not civilized. It is barbaric. Rather than progressing into being a more tolerant, open and respectful society, Ireland has regressed over 1500 years into his pre-Christian pagan past, where the weakest members of society are not tolerated and not respected. They are destroyed.

If you want to see how this ‘quiet revolution ‘ (a revolution which somewhat illogically according to the Prime Minister has left Ireland ‘today the same as it was last week’) shows its tolerance and respect, look at this video.

Celebrating the right to kill children in the womb as though it were a football match…we are the champions….’we are a better country’ and yelling at the pro-life people ‘choice, choice, choice’ (what choice does the baby have?).  This is the new regressive Ireland.

Even more chilling is the statement that “Ireland has moved into the 1950’s’ which suggests that of course the ‘progressive’ movement will continue even more in its regression into the pit.

Northern Ireland – you’re next.

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The result was of course welcome by regressive politicians, media and religious figures from all over the world. The New York Times described it as sweeping aside generations of conservative patriarchy and a rebuke to the Catholic Church. Vicky Beeching was one liberal ‘evangelical’ who rejoiced.    Anna Soubry, Troy MP in the UK parliament welcomed it and saw it as an opportunity to push her obsession – preventing Brexit.

In that same vein the Scottish journalist Ruth Wishart tweeted.

“On Independence in Scotland, Brexit in the UK, and now abortion law reform in Ireland, young voters are leading the way. Time for my generation to wake up and smell the future.”

This is what the progressive future means. Indoctrinating young people so that we can kill the young (killing the old and sick will come soon)…

The Scottish government was not slow to virtue signal its own progressiveness. Scotland’s First Minister tweeted:

“Congratulations to @Together4yes and the people of Ireland.“Compassion, justice and trust in women win the day.“Joyful moment – but also one to remember the heartbreak for many along the way.”

We are governed by a First Minister who thinks taking life in the womb is compassion and justice and that voting for the right to do so is a cause for joy! If ever there was something that demonstrated the death cult that is progressive liberalism…..

Meanwhile the Scottish Government minister for Europe, Mike Russell, couldn’t resist joining in the celebrations.

“Congratulations – great to see a positive, modern, thoughtful electorate using a referendum in a positive, modern, thoughtful way”

I found this somewhat ironic given that Mr Russell is currently trying to overturn two referendums (the Scottish and European ones) which did not go his way. Clearly they were not ‘positive, modern and thoughtful!   I wonder if Mr. Russell will support the calls already coming for the UK government to impose abortion on Northern Ireland? It will be interesting to see if the principles of devolution are to be overturned by principles of the progressive death cult.   My money is on the latter.

Speaking of referenda this was also a spot on critique of the selective way that facts are used:

“Wonder if any Remainers disputing result of EUREf on grounds that referenda aren’t sensible way to settle important, complicated questions because ordinary people lack the education or intelligence to fully grasp them, will dispute the results of the Irish Referendum on the same grounds?”

Leaving that trivial detail aside – this whole issue is profoundly upsetting. To see the nation that was once used to civilize Europe now descending into barbarity is absolutely heartbreaking. I really feel for my Irish brothers and sisters. This Sunday it reminded me of this song.   I realize that U2 have long ago sold out their Christian principles and indeed were major supporters of the Yes campaign – but the words of their own song about the unjust death of 14 people on bloody Sunday – the rage and the cry how long – are surely even more apposite today – when U2 and two thirds of the Irish people have voted for the death of hundreds of thousands.

 

I can’t believe the news today
Oh, I can’t close my eyes
And make it go away
How long?
How long must we sing this song?
How long, how long?
‘Cause tonight, we can be as one
Tonight

Broken bottles under children’s feet
Bodies strewn across the dead end street
But I won’t heed the battle call
It puts my back up
Puts my back up against the wall

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday, Sunday, Bloody Sunday (alright)

And the battle’s just begun
There’s many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters torn apart

Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday

How long?
How long must we sing this song?
How long, how long?
‘Cause tonight, we can be as one
Tonight, tonight

The cry ‘How long?” was lifted from the Bible.   As it happens Psalm 79 was my bible reading for the bloody Sunday. It was so apposite and for the first time in my life I prayed it with understanding and absolute conviction.

O God, the nations have invaded your inheritance;

 they have defiled your holy temple,

they have reduced Jerusalem to rubble.

2          They have left the dead bodies of your servants

as food for the birds of the sky,

the flesh of your own people for the animals of the wild.

3          They have poured out blood like water

all around Jerusalem,

and there is no one to bury the dead….

4          We are objects of contempt to our neighbors,

of scorn and derision to those around us.

5          How long, LORD? Will you be angry forever?

 How long will your jealousy burn like fire?

6          Pour out your wrath on the nations

that do not acknowledge you,

on the kingdoms

that do not call on your name;

7          for they have devoured Jacob

and devastated his homeland.

8          Do not hold against us the sins of past generations;

may your mercy come quickly to meet us,

for we are in desperate need.

9          Help us, God our Savior,

for the glory of your name;

deliver us and forgive our sins

for your name’s sake.

10         Why should the nations say,

 “Where is their God?”

Before our eyes, make known among the nations

that you avenge the outpoured blood of your servants.

11         May the groans of the prisoners come before you;

with your strong arm preserve those condemned to die.

12         Pay back into the laps of our neighbors seven times

the contempt they have hurled at you, Lord.

13         Then we your people, the sheep of your pasture,

will praise you forever;

from generation to generation

we will proclaim your praise.

Sam Alberry was correct when he commented:

“Ripping children from their mother’s side in the interests of security, and from their mother’s womb in the interests of ‘freedom.’ We’re barbaric. And we still have the temerity to presume we are advanced. We don’t need to go further left or further right, but much further ‘up.’

In order to prevent this slide into barbarity Ireland needs a new St Columba. Ireland needs a Christian revival. Pray for those who are engaged in church renewal and church planting in that once great country.  Pray that the anti-abortion campaign will continue and that the Church of Jesus Christ will continue to reach out and show compassion to those who are considering abortion and those who have had abortions.    May Ireland flourish by the preaching of the Word. How long, O Lord, how long?

Abortion, the Church of Scotland and the Media

 

 

58 thoughts on “Ireland Regresses; Sunday, Bloody Sunday

  1. How can it be ‘more tolerant, open and respectful’ to kill babies? It’s as simple as that. May God give our British leaders open eyes and hearts to see what evil is being done against the unborn. This is a spiritual battle.

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  2. Brilliant comment again David. The regression to more barbaric times is so obvious. As you say, euthanasia will be the next ‘freedom’. Civilised society? That’s a laugh. We were once governed by people with great wisdom, which came from their many years of experience. Now it seems we let the young and inexperienced rule our countries, especially the liberally indoctrinated students.

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  3. I would agree that I cringe a little when I see the celebrations, though I understand why they are happening. My confusion is this, Christians continue to be against abortion and yet any time I see a government trying to expand sex education (i.e. talking about contraception) to make it more comprehensive and relevant, it seems to be Christians leading the charge against.

    I have also met tons of Christians that say that women contemplating abortions should consider adoption instead and yet in my entire time with the evangelical church (15 years) I only met one couple that adopted.

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    1. It depends on the type of sex education and whether it actually reduces the number of teenage pregnancies. I have met several Christians who have adopted and it should be encouraged.

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    2. The underlying premise of this perceived contradiction being that preventing births is a necessary good. As long as we are preventing children, the logic seems to go, why are evangelicals and Catholics against birth control? Always question the premises and search out their origin.

      My experience is different. I know many, many adoptive families, and every one of them is faith oriented.

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    3. Adoption does work. I had a child at 19and adopted her out. I never felt bad about what I did. My parents said gossiping was worse than what I did. Now I see this baby I had to wait a mere 9 months to allow to live, has four beautiful children of her own. We are friends and support each other. That would never have happened if I couldn’t wait just a few months. Children are not a right they are a gift.

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      1. Love this story Bamelville. Well done for being so pragmatic. Your ‘choice’ brought great good and absolutely minimised regrets. Your parents sound great and helped you to be wise and strong. Abortion isn’t the answer.

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  4. “This country abolished the death penalty for the guilty , and is now asked to support the death penalty on the innocent .” Those words spoken by Abigail Malone , today , shame Ireland , and dam almost all of western “progressive” society. How long Lord , how long ?

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  5. I’m pretty sure that many people voted yes because under the 8th amendment no intervention was allowed even in cases where the babies had died. I have read harrowing stories of women forced to carry dead babies until they went into Labour. In addition to the psychological damage inflicted on the woman this can be life-threatening. But no intervention was allowed until the woman’s life was actually endangered i.e. when she went into Sepsis. That is barbaric. When I had an early miscarriage, I was offered and had a D&C, I could not bare to carry around the remains of my dead embryo until they passed. Try for a moment to imagine carrying around a dead pre-term baby, knowing that all your hopes had died, and that your own life was now at risk?
    As a realist I know that women will continue to have abortions. In a civilised society this “necessary evil” must be available as a safe option.

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    1. If that is true then it is absurd. Removing a dead baby is not aborting a live one. But it is equally ridiculous to say that we should start killing live babies just to deal with this situation. Why not just amend the law?

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      1. Extremely and dangerously naive to think this decision was only about removing dead fetuses. Don’t practice such simple mindedness.

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      2. Thanks David, well put as always. It saddened me to see the celebrations that went with the result – something macabre about it all.

        > Why not just amend the law?

        Exactly this. While I do view abortion as a necessary evil for horrid situations like the above, there is no justification for such a liberal lurch the other way. Though on my reading still more conservative than the UK law.

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    2. You know there are founds for this ..yes but no to removing the right to life ….i know a friend of a friend who was told by medical industry she was not pregnant ..my friend through prayer was told she was…she asked her friend not to go ahead with the d&c and have one last ultrasound she finally listened but so as she sat on the table with d&c she had one last d&c..the mother managed to see her baby ..jumped off the the table and left .that child is alive and healthy today……medical industry are not always 100%…they make mistakes and when the hehe do they make excuses and bury them. My own father experienced this …the hospital made mistakes and then it’s then its too late …we must go back to believing and trusting in God ….opening our eyes and not blindly voting Yes when offered only one option to kill …Instead of asking ourselves are there other options ..my mum lost my sister before I was born…although it was tough on her my mum gave her every chance ..my mum is ay peace because for a short time my sister lived and we gave her a proper civilised burial ..but the important point is she lived …she was allowed to exist ..we acknowledge her existence ..I had a sister who lived …faith and walking with God is the only way …the child was blessed at birth if she had been aborted she would have been mutilated and my mum woils never had closure just a bad memory of abortion or never really knowing

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  6. Thanks David for expressing this so well. It’s as if the light of sanity is being snuffed out bit by bit worldwide and a darkness is creeping across lands you once thought would never fall. Celebrating the legalising of aborting babies! A time of mourning would be more appropriate.

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  7. Grotesque is the only word that fits people celebrating this evil.

    Ro 1: 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
    29* being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
    30* slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
    31* without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
    32* and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

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  8. “Yes” won, you lost. Get over it. Women will no longer be oppressed by the likes of you, forced to bear a wanted baby to term knowing it will die in an hour of being born because it still has a heartbeat, forced to give birth and raise a child as a teenager thus ruining the rest of their lives, or made to pay huge amounts of money to flee to the UK and have an abortion.

    Make no mistake, this wasn’t about allowing abortion – it already happens for Irish women who can afford it, just not in Ireland. It means that now the poor and needy, who would be most at risk from forced pregnancy, can abort too.

    Have you watched The Handmaid’s Tale? I suggest you do. It describes what would come from your vision of society.

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    1. Yes – I’ve watched The Handmaid’s Tale – it has nothing to do with my vision of society – precisely the opposite. However it is very similar to the authoritarian, hypocritical, unequal, anti-diversity, cruel society you seem to be celebrating. This also has very little to do with the extreme cases you cite but is about the right to kill babies in the womb. The fact you not only celebrate but support that only shows the depth of your depravity. God have mercy on you.

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      1. David: I agree, may God have mercy on his soul – like God did for me when my pro abortion view was changed to pro life. Praise God for the depth of his mercy and grace.

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    2. I’m confused by your reference to “forced pregnancy”. Are you referring to rape, or to the carrying of a child that was willfully conceived?

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    3. “Forced to give birth and raise a child as a teenager thus ruining the rest of their lives” – although it is rarely the best situation to have a child in less than perfect circumstances, does it have to mean their life is ruined? Why can’t we have a society that encourages positive choices before pregnancy, and helps the young person in an unplanned pregnancy situation reach their goals without having to sacrifice their child? Why should anyone HAVE to choose between the two?

      “It already happens for Irish women who can afford it, just not in Ireland. It means that now the poor and needy, who would be most at risk from forced pregnancy, can abort too.” The reason “poor and needy women” are at risk of anything is because they are poor. Why do we have poor and needy women? Why not deal with the poverty? Do they have a real choice of being able to bring up their child or are they going to be under even more pressure to take one for the state – one which will probably be quite happy to see children from poorer families aborted? It’s the ultimate austerity measure.

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    4. I don’t see any extreme cases in what you have said. How about this. There are seven billion or so people in this world and there is only one of you. You have a purpose and a reason for being here- and I’m sure it’s not revealed just yet- by what you have said.
      Every soul has a purpose- and we play God( sorry that role is taken) by thinking we can interfere with the natural process of birth- life- and death. Who are you or I to judge the future value and vital place in the universe for a wee babe not yet born. Complete at 12 weeks gestation- just not yet grown.
      Women here in Australia site the main resin for procuring abortion as “ being unable to afford to have a baby”. We are rated as a rich country( by standard of living). So if countries like us, who have one of the highest per capital abortion rates in the western world- can not ‘ AFFORD ‘ to support a woman for a few months, so she can have a baby, then what hope has any of us?
      My suggestion is do some research. The only time a mother’s life needs to be favoured over the baby she is carrying, is when her life is in immediate danger. This is extremely rare- especially in places like Australia and Ireland.
      I’ve been working in this area for 30 years, and the yes vote was all about money- not support for woman.
      Hold out your hand in support and stop the judgement. With support and compassion woman can and do have babies easily.
      The same cannot be said of those who have an abortion. Or many. It’s ending the natural process and stopping future citizens and their descendants.
      And that is not good enough for Ireland- or any country.

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  9. I heard the cheering on the TV from another room and thought please God that is not Ireland. Reading some of the celebratory comments online… breath-taking in their scientific inaccuracy, utter coldness, the absence of any notion of ameliorating the circumstances driving abortion, putting religion forward as a strawman, and the (not-so) strange parallels between the rhetoric and what might be termed toxic masculinity.

    Progressive? It’s Leo’s express laundry. Fixing the woman, not the culture.

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  10. Thanks for your summary David. The blindness and depravity spreads across mankind. It absolutely confounds me that people do not consider the biological perspective. Scott Klusendorf delivers an excellent rebuttal to the “choice” crowd.

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  11. Further to the disgust at the celebratory atmosphere, New Wave Feminists (pro-life, for those not in the know) put forward the explanation that many of these people will have been through abortion, and the relief at having two thirds of the poll saying that that was OK would be tremendous. Because facing up to the reality of abortion is something else.

    The message was, just as we can’t dehumanise the unborn, we need to be careful not to dehumanise those who do. Because they are often the ones who have been hurt most by abortion.

    Doesn’t make the celebrations any less distasteful, but sure puts another angle on it.

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  12. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of what you regard as apparently an inappropriate way to mark the result of this vote was at least in some respect down to a hangover from the devastation wrought by the criminals within the Catholic church in Ireland who used children for sexual purposes and then did everything within their power to ignore the victims, protect the guilty and avoid justice.

    That would also explain why the Catholic church was such a meek presence during this vote on abortion – a Catholic hobby horse if there ever was one. What’s that bit about reaping what you sow?

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    1. There isn’t one person who loves life Catholic or not who can rejoice in the sadness of this vote. It’s only about money- money for the abortion providers. If they can rape Ireland of its money and dignity – as one of the last countries to stand against abortion, they will do it. They have and it’s Ireland and the women and future possible citizens I feel for.
      Take it from a ( citizen of a ) country that has one of the highest abortion rates in the western world- Australia. It hasn’t helped us at all.
      Domestic violence is up and violence generally, as is the mostly undiagnosed post abortion syndrome.
      Sad day indeed.

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      1. How exactly do you link this apparent rise in domestic violence and violence in general to the rate of abortion? I’m very interested to hear.

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    2. John, the grossly malformed baby in the womb is still valuable life in God’s eyes. It was still life in God’s eyes from the moment it was an entity in its own right. Imperfection is a result of the fall and, separated though we are from God and His ways, He is still contending with us. He especially contends with the weakest. Medical advances are a double edged sword too, increasing the potential for life saving intervention and ethical dilemmas. Becoming a Christian is the beginning of seeing things through God’s eyes and growing as a Christian increasingly results in seeing things as He sees them although we are always far off, because as humans, our ways are not His ways. He can bring a lot of good out of circumstances we regard as undesirable. We get the most comfort when we acknowledge He is in control. I say this to encourage you, not to criticise your sentiments and I say it to remind myself too. By the way, you are right when you say that the Catholic church was a weak voice because of the scandals that came out of the woodwork over the past couple of decades or so. But did the Catholic church ever speak for God really? Granted, the RC church has been the strongest voice in relation to ethics and morals for a long time up to now. But if we really want to know the mind of God on matters, we have to read what God has said in the Bible and nowhere has God asked for clergy to be exclusively celibate. The clergy were incredibly powerful in Ireland and of course, power corrupts. There was huge corruption within the RC church as you know going back many many centuries and continues to exist which is why we had the Reformation, although there was RC reform too to a degree. As a society we desperately need to get away from saying that the lesser of 2 evils is not an evil! That’s the beauty of God’s word, and terribly difficult though it often is for us to submit ourselves to His standards, they are still His standards against which we measure our behaviour. Genuinely hope to help.

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      1. Hi, my last reply, awaiting moderation, was one I added more to and has duplicated content. The first 27 are already posted lines up to “But did the Catholic Church ever really speak for God?” After that is new comment.

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  13. To be blunt, the Irish are stupid on this issue. Did they look at countries that already have legal abortions? Did they look at these countries and find out how long it was before assisted suicide was then made legal? Did they know that the abortion industry props up medical research on human fetuses? Did they know about the ways in which abortionists are seduced into believing they are doing good by dismembering pre-born babies for profit? Do they know that women have been conned for the last 45 years into believing that abortion is the answer to avoiding responsibility and relieving inconvenience? Do they care that their children and grandchildren will be killed?

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    1. I suspect the answers to all of the above questions are “yes”, excepting the last, which is likely to be “no”.

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  14. David,
    Thank you for standing for the truth! I still feel sick in the stomach after seeing and hearing the celebration after the so called ” victory”.
    The lack of any serious public comment by every church which professes to be Christian speaks exceedingly loud!

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  15. It amazes me that the real reason why such huge crowds wanting relaxation of abortion laws is never mentioned. In 1967 the big argument for the new abortion act was to prevent back street abortions, which often resulted in the death of the mother on account of sepsis .( the death of the baby didn’t seem to come into it !)
    Now , the overwhelming background reason for ‘free’ abortion is simply that people today want ‘free’ sex. No- one is going to tell them how to behave; they want to have sex whenever they want it , with whomever they want it , without the responsibility of looking after a child for the rest of their lives.

    Of course there are ‘medical’ cases too – nothing in this world is perfect ! The amazing God- given miracle of a baby developing in the womb, plus the difficult mechanics involved in delivering the child, can also be frought with dangers – for which our doctors are specifically trained.

    But you know and I know that 90% of abortions carried out every day today are for social reasons, and not because the mother’s life is in real danger, nor the soundness of her mind or because the foetus is so malformed that destroying it is the only answer.

    I did my midwifery training in 1960-61, before the abortion Act had been passed and in one year I saw only one abortion performed on a grossly malformed foetus.. It was a necessary act which no- one questioned and it did not need a law in order to be performed. Common sense dictated that the mother would not have survived, had she been forced by law to continue with the pregnancy. This is not what the abortion act is about.
    The pro- abortionists have said it themselves. It is about ‘Free Choice.’

    Perhaps what is really missing in our society today is a moral consciousness and a huge lack of common sense.
    What ought to be taught in sex education is not the mechanics of the thing, but one fact mainly : where babies come from ! The natural outcome of having sex is a real , live baby:a new, unique human being (every one created in the image of God)and babies mean loving care and responsibilty preferably undertaken by adults in a lifelong commitment to each other.

    Thank-you for speaking the truth . Do not be surprised at being persecuted: Christ explained this to his followers : He himself was persecuted, as were his prophets before him.

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  16. It appears that this “God- given miracle of a baby developing in the womb” mustn’t be quite the miracle you proclaim it to be if you “saw only one abortion performed on a grossly malformed foetus” – what happened to the miracle of development in that case I wonder? I assume also that the fact that countless pregnancies end in miscarriage is also a miracle of God’s devising?

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    1. I did make the point that not everything in this world is perfect.
      Also in pregnancy things can go wrong. Like all other tragedies that befall us, we have to remember that ever since the Fall ,when even the earth was cursed, bad and sad things happen.
      To blame God however for everything that goes wrong, is plainly wrong.
      God’s original plan,was good. Everything was fine in the garden of Eden , until Adam and Eve disobeyed the one command God gave them.

      God is perfect and cannot abide sin.
      The wages of sin is death.
      But even there, God himself eventually provided the only all sufficient sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin . Himself.

      When God created us in his own image ( giving us some of his own characteristics, but not all) he gave every one of us a sense of right and wrong. He also gave us , graciously, freedom to choose which way we would go. He never forced anyone to follow him or believe in him.

      We may not live forever or know everything ,but He gave us plenty to get on with.
      Perhaps the greatest tragedy today is that the vast majority are pretty ignorant of God and his Word and what it teaches us ; modern man seems to think he is really clever enough , enlightened enough to run his own life and does not need to know God or even know about God.

      The choice is still ours. Do we choose to follow God or Self , Life or Death,
      Righteous Laws or flawed Man- made laws ?

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      1. It would appear then that what you first described as an “amazing God-given miracle of a baby developing in the womb” isn’t a miracle at all – by our own admission it can all go wrong and the bay developing can be so malformed as to call for an abortion. Some miracle.

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      2. In fact every baby born is an absolute miracle of God’ wonderful and on-going creation. Hundreds of thousands are born every day having developed during 9 months in the most wonderful way in the safest place possible for a tiny fertilized egg to grow and develop : it’s mother’s womb., and are born absolutely perfectly formed!
        Anyone studying the intricate and specific points of development of a growing foetus: the life – giving flow of oxygenated blood from its own mother, plus the amazing function of genes from both parents into that baby’s DNA, the hearing developing first in the centre of the head, the intricate little bones, the brain itself- the list is endless, anyone amazed at all this, will agree that it is nothing short of a miracle!

        So why is every baby not formed perfectly? I say again , because nothing in this world is all perfection. We live in a fallen world . If you can’t accept that, just look around you . We most certainly live in a fallen , corrupt society.
        One where right and wrong does not seem to matter anymore . One where killing a baby ( perfectly healthy) in the womb is really not seen as very wrong by thousands of people .
        Plus, as human beings we are not omnicient.
        In really difficult and sad situations, only God knows the answers. Not us.

        We need to think and think deeply about what we are doing and the consequences of what we are doing, also the laws we are passing or ammending.

        And we need to open our eyes and see the real miracles all around us !!

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    2. Hi, John,
      can I remind you of what you said a few days ago about the wedding sermon furore:

      in https://theweeflea.com/2018/05/23/ravi-praises-curry-explains-and-cranmer-spins/
      John
      May 24, 2018 at 1:48 am

      Everyone else has moved on to the next thing (hopefully the next thing will actually be something important), meanwhile Christians are apparently in an uproar over a sermon…….over words.

      I suppose the next thing is/was the Irish Referendum and we all agree that it is/was important. And yet here you are arguing about the use/misuse of the word ‘miracle’‽

      In response to an historic event where women’s stories — at least the stories that were heard — had a major impact on the outcome, Vera’s experience and others like hers ought now to be heard before the implementation.

      Pardon my pedantry, but — as you wished for — the issue is important.

      Yours,
      John/.

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      1. I was simply querying a claim that was made John.

        The claim was made that the development of a life within the womb is a God given miracle.

        Is it still a miracle when the same miraculous process leads to a baby so malformed that it has to be aborted?

        I don’t think so.

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  17. John, the grossly malformed baby in the womb is still valuable life in God’s eyes. It was still life in God’s eyes from the moment it was an entity in its own right. Imperfection is a result of the fall and, separated though we are from God and His ways, He is still contending with us. He especially contends with the weakest. Becoming a Christian is the beginning of seeing things through God’s eyes and growing as a Christian increasingly results in seeing things as He sees them although we are always far off, because as humans, our ways are not His ways. He can bring a lot of good out of circumstances we regard as undesirable. We get the most comfort when we acknowledge He is in control. I say this to encourage you, not to criticise your sentiments and I say it to remind myself too.

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  18. Sure, we don’t see the immediate good that can come out of the ‘life’ of a grossly malformed baby. But it is still a ‘life’. As a society, we have become increasingly unaccepting of anything imperfect, inconvenient or unprofitable. We don’t value life for life’s sake. The vulnerable, weak and unprofitable are completely at the mercy of the strong and we are losing the ability to be merciful. The agenda that is instead increasingly showing its head is to abort and euthanise and this is incorrectly believed to be mercy. Sure, the plight of others may pull on our heartstrings but we really don’t want to spend the time or the money on tending to those who are ‘useless’. It’s human nature really, and in the past deformed people were often hidden away, there have always been unwanted pregnancies and various methods of trying to get rid of it. But we, at one time in the West, were more open to the transformation that only Jesus can bring. But we’ve moved so far away from God’s revealed will as revealed in Scripture, that we make up our own ‘right and wrong’. That is referred to in the Bible. “Each did what was right in their own eyes”. How we treat the most vulnerable in society says an awful lot about a society. We are a post-Christian society in the West. The great medical and technological advances have enabled us to prolong lives, make us comfortable and cure diseases like never before but those same advances have created medical dilemmas. I can’t personally answer the question about where exactly the line lies between keeping someone alive that God would allow to die and prolonging agony that God wouldn’t allow, and killing someone that God wants to live. Medical advancements have created a dilemma in some instances. It’s a double edged sword. But really the problem is the mindset and we are so so geared towards comfort as opposed to ‘life’. I suppose you could say that ‘good’ that would could come out of the life of a grossly malformed baby if it/he/she experienced our love and care? Doing God’s will rarely comes naturally to us. God’s ways are often the polar opposite of ours. Now that we are being told ‘what’ to think by the PC brigade, we are handing our minds and lives over to what we will be next told is right and wrong. Can’t you see it coming? This blog is very useful because the wee flea has his finger on the pulse of where the battle lines actually are. And it is a battle, because we either have to conform or suffer the consequences. I know which side I’m on and it is an inner battle too because I still have my man-centered sinful human nature BUT, as David said in the Bible,
    David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands” Sometimes we think God’s ways are treacherous but that is not true, man without God is capable of the most cruel, heinous, unjust, barbaric, immoral, selfish acts beyond what we could ever imagine. Thanks for engaging with the conversation John. At least you did so fairly decently. Best.

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