Last Sunday was a great Lord’s Day for us – again the joy of knowing the presence of the Lord…the recording for the whole service did not work in the morning but we did manage to get the sermon – this was on 1 Thessalonians 5:16-20. The Lord’s timing for me was fascinating…..I did not know that I would be preaching on this when the issue of ‘cessationism’ (the idea that all the revelatory and miraculous spiritual gifts have ceased) would rear its head again. St Peters is a congregation with a good number of charismatics within and sometimes I am asked what we think about these things – this sermon answers that. We look at rejoicing, quenching the Spirit, prayer and prophecy….
“By the term prophecy, however, I do not understand the gift of foretelling the future, but as in 1 Corinthians 14:3, the science of interpreting Scripture, so that a prophet is an interpreter of the will of God.” – Calvin.
In the evening our recording worked so you can get the whole service – Craig Anderson is the preacher…we were also delighted to have Courtney McConnell with us to tell us about the work of Scripture Union.
Songs – I Stand Amazed; Abide with Me; Ps 119:105-112; When We Walk With the Lord
Reading- 2 Kings 8
Sermon: Ephesians 4:17-5:2 – I think therefore I act
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Reblogged this on John J. Caldwell and commented:
David Robertson shares some excellent teaching on what it means to “quench the Spirit” and “not despise prophecy.”
Well worth a listen. In my view this is a good middle-way between the excessive abuse of prophecy which is so prevalent today, and the hyper-cessationist view that equally neglects scripture by despising all and any “words from the Lord.”
Your sermon didn’t cease to surprise! Words of knowledge – can’t they be seen as a type of personal prophecy, prophecy which can comprise fore-telling as well as forth-telling, can it not?
Geoff,
I think that the most valuable thing about David’s sermon was this notion of it being all right to be right most of the time while occasionally getting it wrong. Impulse, insight, intuition must all be brought to the test of Scripture and IMHO we ought never to insist on our own way by saying, ‘God told me to …’ or ‘I have a peace about that.’
We are never given enough details about New Testament Prophecy for us to be tempted to try and reinstate the ministry of Prophets — as opposed to having a prophetic ministry — in the churches. What did Philip’s four daughters who prophecied actually do? For all we know, they might have been a gospel quartet who sang in four-part harmony; that’s not outwith the possible meaning of the term. But why does Luke think it necessary to mention them? Almost certainly it was to validate the prophecy that Agabus made for Luke makes sure to tell us that more than one prophet was there when a prophecy was given. How would the prophets have ‘judged’ if there was only one prophet present?
It is important we learn that our proclamation of the Gospel takes place primarily where Christians are gathered but for the same reason I’d be very cautious about talking in terms of ‘personal prophecy.’
We all agree that there was a cessation of sorts because the work of the Holy Spirit moving men to write Scripture has ceased. It might not satisfy those who are particularly keen to call themselves ‘Cessationists’ but we should all note that the sort of eyewitness testimony most valued by those who said ‘I am of Cephas’ at Corinth, ceased when the the last of the Apostles died.
Yours,
John/.
John,
The sermon is timely, as on another blog there was summation from a CoE theologian of a New Wine conference in Harrogate.: link here:
https://www.psephizo.com/biblical-studies/the-kingdom-of-god-now-not-yet-church-world/
This is a comment I made:
“Conflicted, wary, now.
The people referred to in your article are not known to me.
I was born again into Church of England church where the minister was part of a charismatic group, including New Wine, AoG, New Frontiers, healing ministries, at a time of the Sunderland refreshing, Toronto Blessing, (which Wimber had concerns over) Brownsville, gold fillings, exercising of prophetic gifts, words of knowledge, courses in the prophetic, some congregation falling down at the altar rail during communion, weaned on books by Wimber, Pytches, Urquart and others, aware that some people had sold their homes to purchase a building, in furtherance of a prophecy only to see it close not many years later, (following a new prophecy), having given and been given correct personal words of knowledge, having seen division in a church over whether someone, not me, (who was adamant God had told him) was called to ministry, and having been rejected and subsequently , seemingly fallen away from the faith, having been aware of many “God instances” in life, at a time when there was an emphasis of “men of power for the hour” ,having read David Watson’s book on his last days and incorrect words of knowledge from Wimber, concerning Watson’s healing, having seen people I know who were given words of knowledge for healing, then didn’t seek available medical intervention (because it had been stated they were healed) and died, having heard from a retired AoG minister that they were aware of a pastor who had been excluded from a healing prayer meeting, by his own people as they though he hadn’t sufficient faith.
The general emphasis was that we can have all of the Kingdom NOW. I recall musing with one man, that if that were correct, there’d be no need for the return of Christ.
But it started to change when I had a triple CABG, which I didn’t have in my diary. Afterwards, it seemed as if God had been surgically removed from my life and some I knew started wondering if I’d lost faith, when that was so far from the truth, and I’d been given the faith to die and know that death brings healing and astonishingly glory to believers.
Then about 7 years ago I had a stroke which ended my employed life, but God was faithful. I can’t recall precisely when but I was getting some marvellous over the internet teaching, through a recorded, taught DMin by Clowney and Keller and great UCCF recorded teaching from Mike Reeves and recorded Martin Lloyd Jones Sermons. This and much more has resulted a much deeper appreciation of scripture, of Union with Christ and ballast to life, and a Practice of His Presence.
While I’d self categorise now as charismatic calvinist,(or 39 Articles) but not a follower of Calvin, I am wary of the exercise of gifts, particularly when there is barely, if any mention of Jesus, when power is extolled, not weakness, nor the glory of God. Indeed, who gets the glory, who or what is the focus on.
Lastly, this is an observation, not a criticism. Ian’s earlier critique of Richard Rohr’s book seems to be far more rigorous, robust, than the report of the conference above. And yes,, they are not comparable formats, settings, oral – written.
Conflicted and wary, I am now.”
I too would not use the term, personal prophecy, but words of knowledge, in the context David describes. I used the term, largely to express the dual aspect of prophecy, fore telling, and forth telling and the aspect of fore telling, the future, the the words of knowledge spoken about David, which could not be verified, tested against scripture.
I am aware that churches today seek a prophetic word for the direction they should take. But that takes me back to the points I made above.
I should add that at the time of the Sunderland events, Isaw a video in which Sinclair Ferguson (who I did not know at all -, as I was a new Christian) strongly criticised what was happening there. It certainly wasn’t the prosperity gospel. And around that time Jean Darnall was prophesising over the North East of England and Scotland, David has written about those prophesies, that didn’t happen.
But in the less spectacular sphere, I think that Robin S, spoke about coincidences, which I’d categorise as God incidents, through whick God continues to reveal, he know what we are thinking, praying, that He is real and alive, even outwith scripture.