SEEK 38 – Evidence Against God
Question: If there was evidence to prove God wasn’t real, would you continue in your faith?
Bible Reading: Psalm 14
Text: “The fool says in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.” (Psalm 14:1)
What is the evidence for God? When asked that question I can cite lots of things – Creation, the human mind and spirit, the moral law, beauty, religion, experience, history, the Church, the Bible and Jesus (The Dawkins Letters p154-157). In terms of Jesus, I tried to give the evidence for him in Magnificent Obsession. I have spent a lot of my life trying to provide the evidence for God. But what if it was the other way round? Your question is one I have been asked many times – what if you were given evidence to show that God isn’t real – would you continue in your faith?
The answer to that is simply no – I could not continue. Like the late great atheist Anthony Flew I follow the maxim, I go where the evidence leads me. (Flew eventually became a believer in God – if not Christ – precisely because of the evidence. See his book – There is a God.) If someone showed me for example the bones of Jesus, then my faith is over – because my faith is in the risen Christ. However, that is not the same as saying that if someone showed me that something I believed was wrong, that I would then give up the whole Christian faith. On secondary issues I might have to reassess aspects of my belief, but I would not give up faith in Jesus Christ – because my faith in Christ does not depend on me being right about every jot and tittle.
But what evidence could there be for God not existing? I don’t think that question even makes sense. It’s like asking if someone showed evidence that your wife did not exist would you still be married to her?! Now it is theoretically possible that someone could outargue me, drug me and convince me that my wife was really a figment of my imagination, and that I was just dreaming her – but then you have moved away from the realms of rational argument to a kind of surreal Matrix movie fantasy.
But you may think that whilst the existence of my wife is not in doubt, the evidence for God is not nearly as strong. Perhaps in my own experience that might be the case – but when everything is taken together, I would suggest that the evidence for God is more convincing and persuasive than the evidence for the existence of your nearest and dearest.
Do I ever doubt that? Yes – I have had my periods of doubts – what the puritan John Flavel calls ‘atheistic thoughts’. I can remember three periods of real spiritual darkness. The first was when, not long after becoming a Christian, I read Marxist historian Christopher Hill’s The World Turned Upside Down. In it he argued that the English puritans engaged in one of the most successful brainwashing exercises in history. The thought struck me – ‘what if I have been brainwashed?’. Many Christians who have been brought up in Christian homes often go through the same experience – as the devil seeks to deceive them out of their faith.
How did I get through that experience? The black holes of atheism are normally based upon feelings and spiritual attacks – not upon rational thought or evidence. I looked at the evidence and I came down to the foundations and asked, what do I believe? At that stage there were many things I doubted but the one thin sliver of faith I had left was that I believed in Jesus Christ and that he had died for my sins and was now alive. It was enough.
The other two experiences were very similar – although they were even more dependent on feelings rather than rational reasons. It’s a bit like the kind of irrational feeling someone has when they are standing on top of some high cliffs and begin to wonder what it would be like to jump. To obey that instinct would be suicide. To listen to our doubts and fears and jump into the black hole of atheism is spiritual suicide.
In summary it is foolish to go against the overwhelming evidence for the God of the Bible. He has provided us with so much evidence that the only way we cannot see it is to deliberately shut our eyes and claim it doesn’t exist. That is why the Bible calls it foolish. In today’s world there are people who believe in wacky conspiracy theories – and it is impossible to argue them out of it. Why? Because everything you say is part of the conspiracy. In the same way the person who says in his heart that there is no God is a fool. They won’t be persuaded by rational argument or evidence, because they didn’t come to disbelieve because of rational argument or evidence.
The question for you is not really whether there is a God – but whether you trust him and follow him. The real question is what do you think of Jesus Christ?
Consider: Do you think that we are able to sit in judgement upon God? Are our minds big enough, honest enough, and clear enough to be able to make those pronouncements? Do you agree that the temptation to atheism comes more from feelings and spiritual attacks, then it does from evidence? How do you think you can combat these?
Further Reading: The Dawkins Letters – David Robertson
Prayer: O Lord, you look down from heaven to see if there are any who understand, who seek you. We thank you that you are present in the midst of your people – and we pray that we would be faithful and continue to worship. When we walk in darkness, O Lord, grant us light. When we are full of fear, give us faith. When we doubt, help us to delight in you, in Jesus Name, Amen.
Starry sky above, moral law within…..
Plus, the miracle of pregnancy and human development. A thorn under the finger nail liquifies to pus- under a multi-faceted D-Day type immune system attack-yet a human grows to the size of a salmon in the female pelvis. And then, strangeness of strangenesses, the creator takes human flesh in the same manner. Wow! But does GKC in Orthodoxy make another profound point, which marks humans as different from every other species: ‘the Cosmos is about the smallest hole that a man can hide his head in’
Pregnancy often fails horribly, so much for your god. The immune system often malfunctions and attacks the person. Your god fails. And no evidence for your imaginary jesus at all.
I’m not sure why sickness, illness or failed pregnancies disproves the God of the Bible….feel free to let us know. And please try to avoid the mockery. Let me also point out that any post that contains some form of ‘I bet you won’t post this’…will be self fulfilling!
Belief in ‘god’ is not difficult. If we watch Ray Comfort’s videos we find that most people believe in a ‘higher power’, but try to zero them in to the God of the Bible and that’s where things get difficult. People tend to dream up god substitutes in order to avoid the obvious; and those gods are called idols in the Bible.
Our question to every atheist should be: ‘If you don’t believe in the God of the Bible what DO you believe?’.
To come up with the right answers , truly it is God who leads us to ask the right questions !
This is well written and a great description of your own faith, but it doesn’t really answer the question you posed?
Why not?
Well because you haven’t really given evidence of God’s existence. I’m not arguing that God doesn’t exist – I believe that He does. But the blog post doesn’t really address the question, I think.
You state, ” I would suggest that the evidence for God is more convincing and persuasive than the evidence for the existence of your nearest and dearest.” This is a great conviction to have, but given the number of people who believe that God doesn’t exist, I think it would be really interesting to read what this evidence is.
I can understand when you’re completely convinced of a particular point of view, it can be difficult to understand another one – “the only way we cannot see it is to deliberately shut our eyes and claim it doesn’t exist”. I didn’t think anyone sensible could want to vote for Brexit – we all know what happened next. I also can’t understand why anyone would be voting for the Conservative party in a few weeks – but apparently ~ 20% of the population intend to. I also think you’d need to have had your eyes shut to vote for either of these things. But that doesn’t mean I’m not prepared to explain why I think both are bad ideas, and not just dismiss them as “you must need to have your eyes shut to believe that.”
I’m so delighted that you have the faith that you do and can speak so well about so many important issues. I’m saying that in this one particular blog post, I think you really could have beefed out a lot better the evidence you think there is for God’s existence. I think it really would help people. I’m sure you can give something far more convincing than “you must have had your eyes shut” and in the same way I could do better than that about why you shouldn’t vote Conservative even though I am genuinely perplexed as to why anyone sensible would vote for them.
I was answering a question which asked ‘if you were given evidence to prove God wasn’t real, would you still believe? I was not answering the question ‘can you give evidence for God?’ I had 700 words. I have written many words on the evidence for God – including two books – The Dawkins Letters and the Magnificent Obsession. Even in this answer I summarised the evidence like this – “What is the evidence for God? When asked that question I can cite lots of things – Creation, the human mind and spirit, the moral law, beauty, religion, experience, history, the Church, the Bible and Jesus (The Dawkins Letters p154-157). In terms of Jesus, I tried to give the evidence for him in Magnificent Obsession. I have spent a lot of my life trying to provide the evidence for God”
For me, as a believer, this is funny one for me. Intellectually I must believe in God – there is simply too much evidence to draw any other conclusion. But emotionally, sometimes I don’t ‘feel’ the belief, I have those ‘atheistic thoughts’. Maybe that’s the struggle of the sinful nature? But then I remember the evidence, and it brings me right back.
Thats exactly right – most atheism is emotional rather than intellectual…
Your text opens with “What is the evidence for God?” So I wanted to point out that you didn’t address this question.
You appear to be quite defensive, and I don’t understand the need. I’m interested in your perspective, and would have been interested in your answer to this question, as would I think others reading your blog.
Whilst I think Ver could have posted more sympathetically to your beliefs, s/he may also be hurting substantially, and could have been responded to with more empathy and compassion. And importantly, s/he may have really valued your explanation of why you have the faith that you do. Have you posted about this elsewhere? If so could you post the link, please?
Thank you
I was answering the question – If there was evidence to prove God doesn’t exist, would you continue in your faith. I begin by pointing out the numerous evidences there are for God…which does address the question.
If you answer an accusation – then of course you appear to be defensive! But its a cheap shot to make an accusation and then accuse someone of being defensive for arguing it – as though defending yourself against an attack was somehow evil!
If you read by blog you will know I have provided numerous answers to the question – including two whole books!
I would also suggest it is unwise to guess the motives and feelings of people who write…..or to make judgements about empathy and compassion.
There are numerous posts on the evidence for God – seek and you shall find…..start with The Dawkins Letters..
Ps 19 v 1 to 4 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
I see your evidence Pastor, Loud and clear !! I also prefer the way you write it up , to the way others don’t .