The Destiny/Dollar Fall Out Continues

Destiny have come out with the following statement:

IQiT3SI6“Andrew Owen the Senior pastor of Destiny Churches international says that we are very much looking forward to welcoming Dr. Creflo Dollar to Scotland in the next few months. Scotland has a tradition of warmly welcoming visitors from many diverse backgrounds and welcomes all and any to come and listen to Dr Dollar when the church meets at the Armadillo Clyde auditorium, the Aberdeen AECC or our own Gorgie campus Edinburgh.”

https://www.facebook.com/events/1708794026003771/

I don’t wish Destiny any harm (unless they are preaching a false Gospel) and I long to see the Gospel prosper in our cities, whatever the denomination or ethos of the church. But the above statement is at best disingenuous.   If this is the criteria they use to invite speakers I look forward to Destiny inviting Donald Trump, Richard Dawkins and Marie Le Pen to preach at their churches. The question is not about Scottish hospitality, nor about Creflo Dollar’s ‘background’, but about whether a church is prepared to invite someone like Dollar to speak on its behalf. If they do so they are implictly and explictly endorsing his message and methodology.

Creflo Dollar’s prosperity gospel message is not the Christian Good news and his methodology is a ponzi style scheme racket which exploits the misguided, the naive, the sick and the poor. The Church in Scotland is in enough trouble without adding Creflo Dollar’s nonsense to our portfolio. I am sure that I speak for the vast majority of Scotland’s Christians, from all denominations, when I state that we do not welcome Creflo Dollar and his twisted version of Christianity to Scotland.

Again I would plead with Destiny to withdraw their invitation and not to invite the wolves into their flock. And if they are determined to go ahead, I make this simple offer.  Go ahead and welcome Dollar, but are you prepared to welcome an alternative point of view?  I am quite happy to come and debate Creflo Dollar when he comes on the 12th of June. Given that Destiny are so warmly welcoming and interested in diversity I look forward to their warm acceptance of my offer.  Let Creflo bring his message and let me bring the Biblical answer. If you and Dollar are so confident that he is bringing the message of Jesus what do you have to lose?  The God who answers by fire let him be God!

Creflo Dollar and Scotland – The Reaction

Why Creflo Dollar is not Welcome in Scotland

There were several articles in the Scottish press – this one in The Courier being an example –

Free Church moderator wants Dollar’s invitation rescinded

The Courier & Advertiser 18 Apr 2016

A leading Dundee minister has said an American who preaches that people will become rich if they are faithful should not have been invited to Scotland.Creflo Dollar from Georgia promotes the “prosperity Gospel” and will speak at a series of events organised by the Destiny Church in June.

The televangelist has asked his parishioners to donate money so he can buy a $65 million private jet.The Rev David Robertson, moderator of the Free Church of Scotland, said Dollar’s teaching are heretical and he has written to the Destiny Church asking them to rescind the invitation.And he called upon Dollar to instead use the $65m to build 65 new churches in Scotland.

Mr Robertson said: “There is a real need for many more living Christian churches in Scotland of whatever denomination.

“The Free Church with its strong emphasis on biblical teaching, discipleship, reaching out and its Presbyterian church government is in a strong position to help with that.”
Mr Robertson added: “As well as new churches in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Montrose we are seeking to develop even more. For example in the Charleston area of Dundee.
“From Orkney and Shetland to the Borders, in the urban housing estates and the suburban towns, we need to be planting new missional congregations which will reach out to those who have no meaningful church connection.

“We have no shortage of young men coming into the ministry – now we need to find places to put them when they qualify from our Edinburgh Theological Seminary.”

 


40 thoughts on “The Destiny/Dollar Fall Out Continues

  1. I agree with all that The Wee Flea says about such preachers as Creflo $. My question is: would those of us who truly abhor the preaching of Prosperity theology, boycott these gatherings or consciously go along to see and hear just how heretical they are? Or are we putting ourselves at risk of ‘tempting’ the Lord?

  2. The Destiny Church statement on behalf of Mr Owen is a pretty lame attempt to distract from the root cause of the of the disquiet amongst Scotland’s evangelicals i.e. the dishonest prosperity belief and practice of C. Dollar which Destiny seems to wish to ally itself with and promote to the unsuspecting people of Scotland. In content and tone the statement resembles a press release from some under pressure dodgy politician or business leader, not someone who is the leader of a church and like all believers is supposed to be filled with the Holy Spirit and modelling the character of the Lord Jesus Christ!! Well done for throwing down the gauntlet for truth and righteousness David. If C. Dollar declines, perhaps his promoter and apologist, Mr Owen, would be prepared to debate instead. I am pretty sure that both will run away, fearing they will be ‘found out’ and exposed for what they are.

  3. I have never been too clear about the label ‘Prosperity Gospel’ and sometimes feel that we might be in danger of throwing out the baby with the bath water in terms of blessings.

    I know next to nothing about Creflo Dollar so I can’t make any judgements about his character or his position in Christ. I do, though, want to make a couple of points that have been prompted by some of the pejorative language in this piece (and David will know that I am not one to shrink back from confrontational situations):

    Firstly, Mr. Dollar is being accused of blasphemy. Whilst one may or may not agree with his views on (Christian) prosperity, I cant see why this means he is a blasphemer. Blasphemy is defined as ‘the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God’. Are his words and/or actions really doing that? If so, exactly what words, or pronouncements, and actions show such a contempt? He may be a multi-millionaire but that is no evidence of irreverence towards God, is it?

    Secondly, Hamish Alexander uses the word ‘heretical’ in reference to the kind of gathering that Mr. Dollar would attend. Again I appeal to the real meaning of what is being said. Heresy is any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs. Is Mr. Alexander really saying that Mr. Dollar’s views on prosperity are so abhorrent as to be in the same league as denying the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross, or salvation by grace? If I were to listen to a good number of his Sunday messages would I hear anything about the fundamentals of the gospel message, or would I hear only about prosperity and that it is a sure sign of God’s blessing (presumably implying that the opposite is true)?

    Just asking.

    1. Hi Christina – you have hit the nail on the head. Its not so much about his personal wealth (although how he gets it and what he does with it is highly relevant). My concern is with the blasphemy. If you read the article you should see why I consider he is blasphemous – Romans 2: 23 You who brag about the law, do you dishonour God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” There are numerous things in what he teaches that blaspheme – and his actions in asking people for a $65 million jet from his congregation whilst people are starving is blasphemous – as is his claim that anyone who opposes this is of the devil!

      By heretical we mean against the Word of God. The Prosperity gospel is a heresy from the pit of hell.

      And poison mixed with wine is as dangerous as poison drunk on its own!

      1. Why do we always hate on pastors who are prospering at preaching the gospel. U mean to tell me it’s OK for a worldly billionaire to have a private jet, but somebody that preaches the gospel to millions around the world doesn’t deserve one upon request. That’s limiting God. “No good thing will he with old from us” What we’re seeing is a man of God that believes and trust in God’s word and we’re seeing the benefits of it cause a man wrote him a check for his $65 million jet. Anything that God is in prospers.

      2. Dennis – thanks for contributing but there are some problems with what you are saying.

        1) Who don’t hate on pastors who are prospering at preaching the gospel.
        2) Prospering at preaching the gospel- that does not mean that we are made materially rich. Otherwise Jesus, Paul and the apostles were terrible preachers.
        3) You have a strange idea of limiting God! I think telling him that he cannot save us without our permission is limiting him. Telling him he has to give us a jet is limiting him.
        4) You can contrast and compare a worldly billionaire with a preacher of the gospel if you like. I think it is a demeaning and disgraceful contrast.
        5) A man did not write Dollar a cheque for $65 million. He asked his congregation to each give $200-300 so that he could afford one (along with his mansions, rolls royce and New York penthouse!). That not faith/believing God. Its greed.
        6) Anything that God is in prospers. Again it depends what you mean by prospers – but it is a simplistic, foolish and unbiblical doctrine to teach that if you are poor its because you are against God, and if you are rich it is because you are for him…

        Please turn away from the cliches of tele-evangelism and instead return to the Word of God.

      3. Seems like the knowledge or lack of knowledge of the Word of God in what used to be called ‘the country of the Book’ us showing through in many of the ignorant comments. We are paying the price for decades of shallow preaching of the Word.

    2. Mr. Creflo preaches about Grace, “undeserved favor”, and he preaches prospering in every area of your life not just only in finances. Who in this world wouldn’t want to experience that. And God is the only one that can make that happen. If it was up to the world all churches would be broke and barely making it. But God said, ” but his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and WHATSOEVER HE DOETH SHALL PROSPER!!!”

      1. No – if you listened to the sermon I cite you will see that is not true. It is very clear what he preaches. You can be little Christs who have authority over poverty, illness, death etc. If you are poor its your fault. If you are sick its your fault. It is the very opposite of the biblical doctrine of Christ….it is astounding that anyone can be taken in this by heretical nonsense. One thing for sure. Creflo is not poor, but many of his congregation are!

    1. So now we can amend Hebrews 11v1 to read, “Now prosperity is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”.

  4. I pray that David is given the opportunity although I doubt it will happen! I pray that the Holy Spirit will make the name of the Lord famous whatever happens.

  5. This is the usual Destiny Church party line as far as statements are concerned. Judging by the level of arrogance involved in even issuing a statement like that, i dont think Mr Owen and co will be commenting any time soon. You only need to look at Jeremiah 23 to get the measure of Dollar, Owen, Hinn, Osteen, Copeland, and Du Plantis. Its kind of funny how when Destiny became part of a shadowy network of Churches and pastors involved in the New Apostolic Reformation ( it numbers around 80 churches in which Destiny are the smallest), they started to change their theology and proceeded to ramp up the amounts of cash involved in their “offerings”. This about more than making money, this is about the systematic assimilation of small churches to come under this network to form one big giant network of prosperity Gospel church’s. That’s the end game folks, and they are using dominion theology and the word of faith doctrine to achieve this. Scary stuff, but true and there is plenty on google to back this up(remember “partners”?, Jeremiah 23 also covers this one.) One Love, and peace be with you in Christ Jesus.

  6. Oh and Destiny 20/20 vision……….it comes directly from World changers as a kit(seems like Old Creflo has been giving Destiny some theological advice by asking them to adopt their World Changers 20/20 vision kit. Have a look on the Destiny and World Changers sites. Its all there.

  7. Most ordinary people are offended by the stench of corruption and dishonesty which surrounds Creflo Dollar. His use of the Gospel to deceive the vulnerable and the gullible to fund his lavish lifestyle is abhorrent to most Scots. His employment of an army of lawyers to prevent the lawful authorities in the USA from shining a light on his financial affairs is worthy of the mafia. This is a man who was recently taken into police custody for assaulting his own 15 year old daughter!! Andrew Owen and his colleagues clearly think that these behaviours are OK. If this is indeed the case, it is perhaps time for the lawful authorities in Scotland, OSCR, HMRC and other investigatory bodies to shine a light on the non-transparent affairs of Destiny Church and its associated organisations.

  8. I feel like a kid in a school playground chanting “fight fight fight”.

    Yeah, Robertson vs Dollar. This I would pay to see. Kinda reminiscent of this Ali vs Foreman rumble in the jungle.

  9. One of the additional issues here is the global dimension. I write from Zambia and it’s clear that Creflo Dollar and a number of other mega ‘pastors’ are sinking their hooks into Africa, and in fact Mr dollar is in Zimbabwe next month before he jets over to destiny. Its clear that these guys use their profile in America and Europe to fill stadiums in Africa, where literally hundreds of thousands, even millions, of poor Africans listen to and get hooked by the prosperity gospel. This is the model of Christianity that is being exported to this continent. I hope Destiny leaders understand that by so brazenly endorsing this style of church and this style of belief, they are contributing to inequality in the developing world.

  10. David – thanks for sharing your concern about this. Penicuik Baptist Church supports your concerns. For what it is worth we shared our concern on our Facebook page, linking to one of your articles. My concern is growing however – where does this end? A Free Church minister is co-hosting a Leaders Prayer Lunch in Edinburgh with Peter Anderson, Lead Pastor of Destiny Edinburgh. Should we and should you be concerned about that? If you were to attend the lunch you could easily start the debate you have called for – without Dollar present I guess. In Christ – David Shedden, Pastor, Penicuik Baptist Church

    1. I’m afraid that I cannot comment about Peter Anderson and Destiny Edinburgh, because I do not know enough about them. However if they are endorsing and promoting the false teaching of Creflo Dollar, then of course I will challenge them on that. I hope to meet and discuss with Peter myself at some point.

      1. Thanks for replying David. Dollar is being hosted by Destiny Edinburgh at its Gorgie campus according to reports in the papers of Destiny’s own statements. I have not been able to find this event advertised on Destiny Edinburgh social media. But – clearly – Destiny is a brand and it is impossible to separate the Glasgow Aberdeen and Edinburgh churches.

      2. David, thank you for having the courage to speak out against the teaching of Creflo Dollar and those who are promoting him. Dollar is scheduled to speak at Destiny Church Edinburgh on the 12th June at 7pm. Destiny Glasgow’s web site has the information in the rolling banner ads at the top of their home page. Destiny is no stranger to controversy; back in 2007, Destiny Edinburgh hosted Mark Driscoll at the invitation of Peter Anderson. It was at this event that Driscoll preached his infamous and blasphemous ‘Song of Songs’ sermon to the applause of Peter Anderson and his Destiny church.

        It would be almost inconceivable that Peter Anderson was unaware of Dollar’s theology before the invite was extended and, in light of your posts, certainly beyond belief that he’s still unaware of Dollar’s teaching. As Peter Anderson is to lead the teaching at CLAN’s Highlands and Islands event this weekend I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Many thanks.

  11. I hadn’t heard of this chap until saturday when a member of the congregation I serve in asked for some wisdom about him. I have the following reflections to offer which colour my response to the request;
    1. on my study wall I have these words written, ‘ the journey to christian maturity does not commence until we crucify our natural instincts to judge and condemn others and embrace the spirit of Jesus who ‘ came not to judge the world but to save it.’ john 12 v 47
    2. I meet with the pastor of destiny church in aberdeen to pray from time to time and know him to be a man of grace,humility and passion for God’s kingdom.
    3. I know that through an arm of destiny church in aberdeen which is called, somebody cares, much good work is done in serving the poor in the city.
    4. psalm 1 v 3 tells us that whatever the righteous man does will ‘ prosper ‘
    5. I visit africa frequently where I witness poverty and illiteracy on an incredible scale which has convinced me of the ugliness of this so – called prosperity gospel.
    6.one of the forgotten yet important principles of scripture is to ‘love the stranger in your midst.’ I recall someone asking my old pastor in edinburgh whether he would welcome a notorious preacher to his home or church and his response was, ‘ surely, I would give him a cup of tea.’
    7. Jesus clearly told the sadduces ‘ you err not knowing the scriptures or the power of God.’ matthew 22 v 29.
    I’m aware we are all capable of error but it seems to me the so called ‘ prosperity ‘ error happens for a number of reasons,eg a forgetfulness of the spirit and emphasis of the beatitudes,a serious misunderstanding of kenosis, and a powerful,demonic deception that appeals to our carnal natures.
    8. there are serious and confusing cultural differences in the US and here. I say this as the son of a father who was born in boston usa!
    9. I want to be part of the answer to Jesus prayer for unity in john 17 v 23.
    10. so my conclusion is,let him come and meet us,let’s pray together,let him come to africa with me and let him see how irrelevant the prosperity message is. it’s unlikey that I will attend any of the meetings but I would be happy to help,pastorily,anyone who has been left confused or troubled by this ongoing discussion and I will respect the freedom of anyone who wished to attend the meetings.

    1. Hector, thank you so much for this very helpful contribution. Just a couple of things. I’m not sure the point that you are making about judgement, especially as you then go on to make some quite serious and correct judgements yourself.

      I would want to specifically comment on your .6. There is a world of difference between welcoming a notorious preacher into your home or church and giving them a cup of tea, something I hope we would all do, and inviting them to preach! Creflo Dollar would be very welcome in St Peters – and he would be very welcome in my home. But it will be a cold day in hell before I ever allowed such heresy to be taught in the name of Christ and his church!

  12. As an ex-Pentecostal reared on Christian TV, the frank ignorance demonstrated regarding the effects of men like Dollar’s teaching does little for my blood pressure, if one gets my drift. Dollar is a wolf – he’s made his living fleecing the sheep and these gentlemen have the unmitigated gall to say, “Give him a chance…you need to listen to him before you criticize.” As if there haven’t been people doing this since the 90s. Shameful.

  13. Dennis,

    This is probably too late as you will likely have moved on after David’s response, but your quotation of Psalm 1 took me back to some excellent and exciting teaching from Drs Michael Reeves, Alex Motyer, Edmund Clowney, David P Murray on the psalms, and some historic teaching from Luther and the “Prince of Preachers” Charles Spurgeon, who generally agree that the psalms are Messianic, prophetic, mostly about Jesus, not us.

    Ultimately He is “the man” in psalm 1. All of scripture is about Him – read the” road to Emmaus” scripture.

    There are also echoes of Genesis, the disobedient first man Adam, the tree of life and prophetically to the future
    only ever perfectly obedient man, the “last Adam” Jesus Christ. And there is so much more.

    But even just taking the words you quote as they are, the prosperity referred to, is the equivalent of “a tree….yeilding fruit.”

    It is certainly not about the accumulation of material wealth for self gratification or agrandisement.

  14. What concerns me even more than the effect of this dangerous and unbiblical teaching – now clearly espoused by Destiny since they have refused to repudiate it – in Scotland is the impact these false and self-appointed, self styled “Apostles” have in places like Africa and India.

    I have had the joy and privilege of travelling and ministering widely in Africa and have seen for myself the long-lasting damage and confusion left behind when these men fly in and out with their message from hell. Unlike Scotland, where the spiritual situation is bad enough, many of those who hear their false teaching in these less privileged parts of the world, don’t have a sufficient biblical or spiritual framework to enable them to distinguish between truth and error.

    I found this to be especially true in Sudan where, out of a passion for God and a desire for anything that was of God, lovely and godly but immature and untaught believers got sucked in to the dangerous nonsense of the televangelists and these prosperity preachers. Then, when presented with the truth of God’s Word, they began to see they have been deceived.

    I said to one group of church leaders – you struggle to put food on the table for your family, and a westerner (usually!) flies in by private jet, parks his limousine at the door of the stadium, stands on stage in an Armani suit and with a gold ring on almost every finger and asks you for money – and you give it to him! It doesn’t take long for the penny (metaphorically speaking, of course!) to drop.

    1. John,

      This is so true. It is what we are exporting to other countries which is profoundly disturbing. It seems to me that once again it is the rich countries for exploiting the poor, in Christian terms and we in the church should have nothing to do with this. Indeed we must call it out

      David

    2. I live and serve the kingdom of Jesus in Italy and have been saddened to see many churches (or so-called churcges) led away by self styled apostles who create communities full of fear and manipulation. So its not only in Africa.

  15. hi david, I think the point you make about judgement is fairly valid,however what I meant to portray happens to be very personal and reflects a spirit of critisism and judgementalism which likely developed in me as a response to the spiritual ‘ culture ‘ in which I was discipled . I needed deliverance from this spirit in order to develop the grace of discernment which I still need much more off. I echo your comments about an invitation to speak in a church and as someone,whom I respect greatly, persuaded me to watch a video of this chap,now,even more so ! blessings,hector

  16. A man lead by the holy spirit will always listen to his conscience.
    I am speaking the truth in Christ-I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the holy spirit. Romans 9:11

    This world is a temporary accommodation for those walking with God, worldly wealth has no place in the Kingdom of God. This is our training ground to prepare us for eternal life with God. We need to pray for the so called prosperity preachers that the holy spirit will reach out to them through their own conscience, we can’,t change their minds with our debates, they are set on the worlds way of prosperity, God’s name has become their brand! We have to have faith that God will guide the people who are seeking him and not what the world has to offer.

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