I have been issued a most interesting challenge. One of the Secular Scotland regulars (lets just call him Mark), and a frequent stalker and reader of this blog posted the following several times: ‘what would Jesus do?”. The question is not really a question, but more of an accusation along the lines of, ‘you claim to be a follower of Christ, and yet you do not do what Jesus would do”. Christians often pose the same question/accusation. For example in the SSM debate, it is presupposed that because Jesus is all about love then he would be perfectly happy with SSM and even if he wasn’t, he would be very nice about it. Or in the other instance this week I was asked what would Jesus do about abuse? Although it is meant as an accusation I take the question very seriously and so let me answer it terms of both of these instances.
Lets examine the question first. My answer sometimes is – ‘I don’t know’. I don’t know if Jesus would be on social media discussing SSM. I don’t know how he would respond in every instance. I don’t know everything about Jesus and am not able to predict the way he would behave. So in that sense the question does not make a whole lot of sense to me. It is usually an accusation made by those who are absolutely certain that Jesus would behave in the way they want him to. I don’t share that confidence.
What I do know is what he wouldn’t do. Jesus would never sin. He would never go against his Father’s Word or law. He came to fulfill it, not to destroy it. I know that he comes to save and not to condemn and yet he still calls sin, sin. I know that Jesus was gentle and mild, but he was not ‘nice’. He spoke the truth bluntly – especially to religious and political leaders. He didn’t play politics, or do back room deals. And he was incredibly radical, pointing out that following him was a cross and that anyone who wanted to had better forget popular acclaim and instead be ready for persecution. The way they treated him, is the way they will treat his followers.
My question for guidance is not ‘what would Jesus do?’, but ‘what does Jesus want me to do? How does he want me to behave?”. And how do I know what he means me to do? I fear that far too many Christians just make up their own personal image of Jesus and then base their behavior and actions on that Jesus made in their own image. So ‘what would Jesus want me to do?” in reality means ‘what do I think my ideal person would do in this situation?”. I can’t live like that. Not with that degree of both certainty and uncertainty. Certainty because people seem very sure of themselves, and uncertainty because it is de facto a false surety that can easily be shaken.
This is how I know what Jesus wants me to do. I listen to what he says. I don’t go by dreams, feelings, church traditions, latest research, friends, family, fashion, majority opinion, or what society says. Ultimately my authority for knowing what Jesus wants me to do is simply his Word. What the Bible says, Jesus says. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God man be thoroughly equipped in every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16).
I have the surer and certain word of God to tell me what Jesus wants me to do. So lets apply that in the two situations mentioned above:
Firstly Same Sex Marriage. Those who make up their own version of Jesus (based upon their own personal feelings, experiences and what the society, both church and wider, say) will come up with something like – ‘my Jesus is a God of love, who would let people do whatever they want, as long as they didn’t harm others. He never said anything about homosexuality and he would want us all to be nice to each other, even when we disagree. Peace, love and unity, that’s what its all about”.
Although that sounds great, I find it to be both incredibly arrogant and incredibly judgmental. It basically amounts to saying “this is what I think is good and therefore God must agree with me”. I’m afraid that I don’t trust myself, or my society, or my feelings that much. So I go to the Word of God and what do I find?
I find that Jesus always speaks about marriage as being between a man and a woman. That he never speaks at, or hints of, it being anything other. I find that Jesus was concerned to protect and proclaim marriage and to denounce sexual sin. I find that he offered himself so that people could be forgiven those sins – whether it was the polygamous Samaritan woman, or the woman at the well, or the prostitutes who heard him gladly. I find that Jesus was so concerned about children that he said those who caused them to stumble would have been better off not being born. Jesus was furious with the ‘bible teachers’ who twisted and abused his Father’s Word, whilst claiming to love it. I also note that Jesus did not think that in order to be a fulfilled human being we have to be sexually active. What would Jesus do? He would stand up for Gods Word, he would defend marriage, he would cry out against the corrupt human authorities (whether political or religious) who think they can just make up rules to suit themselves, he would stand up to the mob mentality and he would graciously, lovingly and strongly expose the darkness and bring the light. How do I know that? Because he already did it!
What does he want me to do? He wants me to teach and live his Word; to proclaim the year of liberation and freedom for those trapped in sexual sin and guilt; to confess my own sin; to challenge the powers and authorities; to lovingly and gently challenge Christians who want to back away from, or indeed distort, His own teaching, to speak up for the poor…and never ever to compromise for the sake of my own safety or popularity. I am called to teach His Word, not mine.
But lets turn to the other subject – what would Jesus ask me to do about the abuse and vitriol I often receive. Maybe I deserve it? Maybe I should reciprocate in kind? Maybe I should despair and give in? Maybe I should give myself a big pity party? Sometimes I do find it overwhelming. There was one day when five of the top eight threads on Secular Scotland were devoted to attacking me (although quite what this has to do with secularism still escapes me!)…and then in the context of this question came the following gems last weekend- these are actual quotes from the Secular Scotland website and my own blog.
I’m aware of a group of evangelical Christians in Glasgow who despise the damage DAR is doing to their church and image. Mention his name and watch the eyes roll.
add to that an awful lot of folk in the Church of Scotland, 121 George Street included, who mourn the damage he is doing to Christianity.
“All bigots should be spat on and abused. Racists, misogynists and others miscreants were likewise forced to keep their views to themselves and from polite society. “
“I’m looking forward to shutting up their ‘free’ speech”
“Hate filled, anti-love, Christian bigot”
do they also think he’s a passive aggressive sociopath by any chance?
Let me put it this way, we’ve had some pros in this field making comments.
I was called a retard and when I complained about the abuse to one of the SS intelligentsia responded by saying ‘now you disagree with someone and you call it abuse” before going on to link Christianity and me with abuse! The ‘logic’ being ‘some RC priests have been guilty of child sexual abuse, they are Christian. You are Christian. Therefore you are guilty of child sexual abuse”. It’s all pretty ugly.
And there is a Christian version of this. The above is what we would call aggressive/aggressive. The Christian version is usually passive/aggressive. Christians will talk about love, post a few verses and implicitly tell you (and the world) that they are loving in contrast to you. They usually don’t have to guts to say it out loud, but it’s all there. It’s neither speaking the truth, nor is it done in love. The worst of course are the people who tell you they love you to your face but gossip about you behind your back.
So back to the question. What should I, or indeed you or anyone else caught in this kind of situation, do? What would Jesus want us to do?
He wants us to love our enemies. To pray for their forgiveness and salvation. To weep, love, pray, challenge, preach and call for repentance. He wants us to take the beam out of our own eyes and to realize that there but for the grace of God go I. He wants us to recognize that our battle is not against flesh and blood but against the spiritual forces of darkness. He wants us to gently instruct those who oppose us. He wants us not to take it personally but to realize that their hatred is primarily a hatred of him, not us. Sometimes he wants us to be silent. To turn the other cheek and to walk away. Sometimes he wants us to speak out for His glory, or for the defence of others. Sometimes he want us to speak in the still small whisper, sometimes he wants us to shout from the rooftops. He wants us to seek our identity, security and comfort in him, not in ourselves, our reputations or in our detractors or supporters. He wants us to warn with all the power, compassion and grace we can muster, that one day all these abusers will stand before the throne of judgment and give account for every ill word spoken. He wants us to be like Noah, preaching righteousness and judgment in a world that laughs at the very concepts. He wants us to look to him and to realize that he will never leave us nor forsake us. Why should we fear what man (or woman) can do?
Do I do what Jesus would do? No. Not always. Many times I don’t know what he would do and even when I do I of course do not have his pure and perfect holy love. I am nowhere near him. Do I do what Jesus wants me to do? Sometimes. But many times I don’t. I am sinful. Far worse than I or anyone else can really perceive. I often get things wrong, say the wrong things, make the wrong judgment or speak with the wrong tone. Sometimes I walk away when I should stand and fight. Sometimes I rush into battle when I should walk away. But that is where the wonderful good news comes in. Because it is not about me. It is about Christ. And isn’t it wonderful that he just keeps on forgiving? That is what the cross is all about. “There is a fountain filled with blood, drawn from Immanuel’s veins, and sinners cleansed beneath that flood, lose all their guilty stains”.
My Christianity is not based upon ‘you had better do what Jesus would do” – my faith is based upon what he has done. He didn’t come to give me an example. He came to give me a new life. The Son of God loved me and gave himself for me. So that now my question is not the fearful, ‘Lord what would you do ’, but rather the loving, “Lord you did all that for me, now I am free to serve you….what do you want me to do?’
And our Jesus is so encouraging and gracious – not only do we get forgiveness, new life, eternal life – we also get His Spirit, he feeds us His Word and he encourages us through his people. Notes, letters, fellowship, phone calls, hugs, prayers…the people of God can be such great fellow soldiers. We are all in it together. We experience many tokens of grace and ‘refreshings’ as we go on the way. Last Sunday in the midst of the battle I was ‘in the Spirit on the Lords Day’. In other words I was worshipping and sharing communion and Gods word with the Lords people at St Peters. It was sweet encouraging fellowship. Last Monday as I was overwhelmed by all that was happening, this is what He gave me:
Firstly from the Book of Common Prayer: “O God, who knowest us to be set in the midst of so many and great dangers, that by reason of the frailty of our nature we cannot always stand upright; Grant to us such strength and protection, as may support us in all dangers, and carry us through all temptations; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”
And then from the Psalms: Psalm 27.
The LORD’s my saviour and my light— who will make me dismayed.
The LORD’s the stronghold of my life— why should I be afraid?
When evildoers threaten me to take my life away,
My adversaries and my foes will stumble in that day.
Although an army hems me in, my heart will feel no dread;
Though war against me should arise,I will lift up my head.
One thing I’ll plead before the LORD, and this I’ll seek always:
That I may come within God’s house and dwell there all my days—
That on the beauty of the LORD I constantly may gaze,
And in his house may seek to know direction in his ways.
For in his dwelling he will keep me safe in troubled days;
Within his tent he’ll shelter me, and on a rock me raise.
So Mark…the answer to your accusation ‘ what would Jesus do?’ is I don’t know…but I know what he has done and on that I base and stack my life. Now it’s my turn. On what or whom do you base your life? (and that is not an accusation but a genuine question in the hope that you will see without Christ you have nothing, but with him you have everything….why would you refuse such a Saviour?).
That it may please thee to strengthen such as do stand; and to comfort and help the weak-hearted; and to raise up them that fall; and finally to beat down Satan under our feet,
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord.
Reblogged this on Christian Heritage News & Commentary.
I thought you had a relationship with Jesus? Why don’t you ask him?
It’s strange… It’s as if he doesn’t even exist….
Indeed I do – and he has. He has given me his Word. But he is not a programmer and I am not a robot…..
Have him tell us in his own words, please. I don’t trust you know his thoughts. I’d like Jesus to clarify his position. Perhaps he can give us an entire account of Ethics, Politics, Government, Philosophy, etc?
All I saw was you give your thoughts about what you think someone you claim to know would do, not what Jesus would actually do.
Seems awfully subjective, David!
Brent – he has – its called the bible! Its not a manual for all these things – but it does give basic principles which we can then work out the details.
I prophesized you’d say that – but of course, Jesus didn’t write the Bible any more than Hitler wrote his diaries… You really struggle with authorship, don’t you?
The Holy Spirit did inspire the Scriptures and he is the Spirit of Christ. So yes he did write the Bible….I’m not the one struggling with authorship!
That’s an interesting question. If it is the same Mark I am thinking of (and as any regular reader of this blog with any ability to discern would be left in little doubt) it would not be an act of attentive enquiry but roughly translated as “shut up about SSM, you lost, get over it.”
On the other side of the coin if someone were to make a genuine enquiry, the way I would choose to engage with it would be to start at the very least by mentioning there is nothing recorded in “The Word of God” about Jesus having anything to say about homosexuality. So I guess that would put me in the camp of creating my own version of Jesus and being incredibly arrogant and judgemental in your eyes David. That’s OK I have heard worse and I have learned how to discern when to welcome an admonishment and when to reject it as false teaching or false prophecy. Either way, I become stronger.
What I do agree with is Jesus came so you may have life in it’s fullest. So whatever answer will be to what Jesus would do, it would be conducive to the best of life for you. So then it leaves the choice for you to welcome or reject that, and Jesus is a gentleman, he’s not going to force you either way. Of course your freedom does come with experiencing the consequences of what you do with your freedom.
I look after my kin, close and wide David. I provide what I can that is best for them. That is all. That is all I can do. Close is close. Wide is humanity. I do that without doctrine or dogma. I doubt you can be so honest.
MARK
Except that is not honest. You do have doctrine and dogma – the fact that you don’t recognise them as such is both dangerous and disturbing. Who determines what is best for humanity? If you really wanted to do what was best for everyone you would not neglect the spiritual aspect.
Except that I dont David.
What would you suggest is the dogma or the doctrine?
Who said I neglect the spiritual aspect? Are you doing my thinking for me? That is even more disturbing and dangerous.
Numerous dogmas and doctrines.
Glad to hear that you don’t neglect the spiritual aspect….can you share with us what that is? Whose spirit?
Hi David,
I’m not sure that many people understand how threatening, wearying and demoralising on-line abuse can be. So please, take care of your health in these disputes.
Prayerfully,
Graham Veale
That applies just as equally to those whom David abuses surely?
Yes 100% agree
Keep up the good work of speaking the truth David. Your reward will be great and I and others are greatly encouraged by your courageous Christian witness.
I came upon this post of yours via a link from another blog. Regardless of whatever reasons they may provide, this is really why the secularists and the nominal “Christians” attack you and any others who uphold the Word of God:
“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (JOHN 3:19-21).
“But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place. For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things? For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God” (2 COR 2:14-17).
The bold sharing of the Word serves both to draw the elect to faith and repentance and to harden the reprobate further, bringing even greater judgment upon them. Keep fighting the good fight!
Thank you for this excellent article. Very encouraging.
Thanks for sharing your views on “what would Jesus do”, David. I know we disagree significantly on many issues and that arguments between us are never fruitful, so I don’t want to argue with you. However, if you permit, I will share how I approach the question of “what would Jesus do”. I’m not arguing with your view, just presenting an alternative.
The first thing I do, is pray. I take great comfort from the teaching of Jesus as recorded in John 14 (in particular – “Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”). I believe passionately that Jesus is not limited to a historical figure (he was a real one, that is not in doubt by any serious scholars) or that we can only connect with him through the Bible – but that he is alive today in me by the presence of the Holy Spirit, whom I invited into my life the day I gave my life to Jesus.
The Bible is an important source for me. I turn to it to study and to learn more of God, his teachings and the examples of how we are to live our lives. However, it is not the sole source and I am very wary of any who profess that it is the only way we can know the Truth. The reason it is clearly not, is that in following Jesus and learning from the lives of the early Christians, I have to remind myself that they did not have the Bible we know today and yet they lived as Christians. In fact, the early church wrote much of the Bible we know today and therefore could not have studied it as we know it today. When faced with the big decisions, they turned to God in prayer and they discussed and debated and sought the Holy Spirit’s guidance and applied their understanding of God’s will for us (which we today have with the benefit of some wonderful Bible translations). The danger (in my opinion) is when today’s Christians remove the aspects of genuine seeking prayer (along with an open attitude that our deeply held beliefs might be wrong), the Holy Spirit and the community of believers and rely solely only on the Bible and its current translations. Equally, I think there is danger in removing scripture from other methods, as there we move towards the dangers of tradition and culture. They must all work together in harmony.
I also believe there is great importance in the body of Christ, as Paul goes to great lengths to teach us. I don’t think I should ever rely on just my own interpretation of Scripture or my own “sense”, but that I need to hear from others within the Christian faith as we wrestle together in community with Truth and how to apply that truth in different situations (such as SSM).
It is clear from the Bible that religious people through the ages have been particularly poor at understanding how the complex teachings of the Bible should be applied. Jesus was accused of breaking the Law himself, and you can understand why the Pharisees thought so when seeing the passages they referred to, such as the Sabbath laws. It is not enough to just read the Bible and point a finger at a verse/teaching and think that it gives a clear answer. We need to involve the Holy Spirit and engage the community of believers, the body of Christ, the Church. In the Bible we learn that discernment is a gift, as is teaching and prophecy and so forth, and we would not need these gifts if all that was required was a well translated textbook that we all had to follow ‘religiously’.
I know you will disagree, but I hope that others find a different perspective interesting.
God bless you and your readers.
MM – are you seriously suggesting that the ‘Jesus in you’ is equivalent to the Jesus who walked on this earth and who is now seated on the throne of heaven? Of course I agree that he is in us ‘through his Spirit’. And I agree that he guides us and helps in many ways – but your position seems to depend on a subjectivism which does not enable you to distinguish between your own feelings and what God wants. The danger is that you confuse the two and you give your feelings (the Spirit within) equal, if not greater authority, than the Word of God. I agree we can learn from the Church – but I find it interesting how you pick ‘n’ mix with that as well. The Church throughout all ages has agreed that marriage is between a man and a woman but now you say that the Church got it wrong (and the Bible) ….and only those in touch with the Spirit today understand…..when it gets to that stage I just simply ask – what spirit?
Thanks David! Keep up the good work!
To answer your questions, yes, of course I believe that the “Jesus in me” (the Holy Spirit) is “equivalent” (a strange word for the Trinity) to the historical Jesus. I certainly don’t consider Jesus’ promise to not leave us as orphans and to send us the Counsellor as some kind of second level or inferior part of God.
I don’t believe the Holy Spirit only pops down on occasion to say hello or only came to inspire Bible translators in history. I believe the Holy Spirit lives in me and lives in the Church today, right now. This is why I am so strongly against the constant attacks on other Christians that we see in many places (sadly often in Evangelical circles), as in doing so, we risk attacking God himself.
The Church’s wrestling with issues is a dynamic process, not a fixed one. The New Testament Church had to have councils to consider situations as they arose and how to respond as Christians (the Church today should be no different). They didn’t just say “ah well, it says in the Scriptures, so it’s clear cut” or “we’ve always held this position so let’s just stick with it”. No, they prayerfully wrestled with how to ensure there were no barriers to grace while following the teachings of Jesus.
I have not said anywhere above that the Church” got it wrong re marriage or the Bible. There’s a long list of things the Church got wrong though (and still does in different places and times – I hope you don’t need me to list examples), and thankfully we learn and grow together. Or at least, we should. The Church has taught that marriage is a covenant between a man and woman and still does. Your view inserts the word “solely” into that statement. Mine does not. I would put the word “traditionally” in.
You talk of the danger of not distinguishing between my feelings and what God wants and seem to imply that reading the Bible makes it objective. There is not a human alive who can read the Bible and not be influenced by his or her feelings as they try to interpret what God is saying and how to apply that teaching. Suggesting that reading the Bible avoids the problem of subjectivity would be very naïve.
So, to answer your last question, the answer is “the Holy Spirit”.
I hope this clairifes your questions. I am confident it will not 😉
The strange thing is that you are saying that Jesus is telling you that SSM is right. Yet he is telling me that it is wrong. Whats the problem?