(an update – the Scotsman carried this story on the 4th of May -You can read it HERE )
Dear Creflo,
Forgive me for calling you by your first name but since we both profess to be Christian brothers I think it is appropriate. We have other things in common – we were both born in 1962 and we are both pastors in the Christian church. But there I guess the similarities end. You have a church of some 30,000 members, I have one with 125. You have two Rolls Royce’s and a private jet; I have a leased car and pushbike! To you that might sound like jealousy, to me it just indicates the different worlds we live in and the different theologies we have. You of course are a world famous tele-evangelist, with your own ministry and TV show; I am an unknown Scottish Presbyterian minister. So why am I writing you? Why should you listen to me?
Because you are coming to my country in a few weeks and I have been challenged by the church that is inviting you after I gave a somewhat critical response to a question I was asked from a Scottish newspaper about your forthcoming visit. I then wrote this blog – Why Creflo Dollar is not Welcome in Scotland There was as you might expect quite a response. I understand that it even made it into your local Atlanta paper, where one of your staff indicated that it was just a little local difficulty, with the implication being that this was some kind of turf war where we were a bit jealous about your coming to another church.
I met with the leaders of that church who invoked Matthew 18 and asked why I had not consulted you first, before writing in public. I told them that I did not think you would even read my letter, never mind respond, but they did not agree and suggested that I was still in the wrong not to do so. I don’t agree with their application of Matthew 18 (see Don Carson on the misapplication of Matthew 18) but nonetheless I want to respect their desire and write to you.
Firstly I want to apologise if I was wrong in my assumption about your willingness to listen and also if I have misunderstood your teaching and theology.
Secondly I want to ask you about that theology. I have listened to several of your sermons and it seems clear to me that you specifically teach what is understood as the prosperity gospel, of the ‘name it and claim it variety’. I listened to your latest series on ‘taking authority’ and it seemed to me that you believe Christians have only to ‘take authority’ and claim wealth and health. Could you let me know if my understanding is correct? Did you ask your congregation to finance a $65 million jet for your ministry?
Thirdly, if you do teach this Prosperity Gospel, I would issue a plea to you as a Scottish pastor, who is seeking to communicate the Good News in a society which is increasingly ignorant of Christ, or hostile to him. Please don’t come. Your visit will only cause harm – to the Church, to the culture and to those of us who have to stay and work here. The name of God will be ‘blasphemed amongst the Gentiles because of you’. (Romans 2:24).
Fourthly, if you do come then I would simply ask that you be prepared to discuss/dialogue with myself in public about what the Lord really says and wants. You know how when Peter came to Antioch Paul publicly rebuked him to his face (Galatians 2:11)? Lets meet and discuss in public. If I am wrong you can show the church and the world and I will be corrected and taught the way of God more perfectly. If you are wrong then the same applies to you. What is there for either of us to lose? The God who answers by fire, let him be God.
I would also like to invite you on your way to Aberdeen to pop in for a wee cup of tea and we could have that same discussion in our own small studios here in Dundee at the Solas Centre for Public Christianity.
If you have a heart for the cause of the Gospel here in Scotland, or for the name and honour of Jesus Christ, then I would urge you to listen to my plea. If you refuse to do so then I feel bound by my love for Christ and his gospel to do everything that I possibly can to resist the cancerous poison of a false theology which assaults the poor, the weak and the sick; and which makes a mockery of the cross of Christ. I have no interest in church politics, ‘turf wars’ or any other such examples of the worldly spirit that so often invades the churches. I seek only the glory of Christ and the good of his church.
You are clearly a man with considerable communication gifts – imagine the good that could be done if you used them to preach the Gospel (and yes I am suggesting that if you add to the gospel the whole prosperity doctrine it is not the Good News to the poor that you are preaching)? I look forward to hearing from you ASAP.
Yours in Christ
David
David A. Robertson
Pastor of St Peters Free Church
Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland (a small denomination in Scotland with about 15,000 people in 100 churches).
Dundee, Scotland 30th April 2016
Well done for writing the open letter to Creflo. I would not be holding my breath in anticipation of a meeting or a debate with this odious individual or his fellow travellers anytime soon. After all, he’s a businessman and the ‘prosperity Gospel’ is his ‘nice little earner’. Pastor Creflo??……..don’t think so!!!!!
I understand how you feel on prosperity teaching, but obviously you have not read the Bible. In Psalms 35, God says it is his will for us to be prosperous and the name and claim it aspect you speak..it is actually in the Bible..In Mark 11:23 Jesus, himself says this is what we can to, for anything, our obligation is to believe…so, although I believe that Creflo speaks for himself, the Bible speaks for us all and what you complain about to him preaching about, it is actually written in the word…please read the Bible..
Oh dear – I;ve read the bible over 100 times. I study the bible every day. It is my milk, meat, honey, bread and butter. So your first point is wrong. Maybe a little humility might help prevent you posting such non-sense in the future?
I’m not sure that you have read Ps 35 which says nothing about God making you rich..but does tell us that the Lord rescues the poor from the strong. And Mark 11:23 says nothing about God making us millionaires. Please don’t take verses out of context, don’t misuse and abuse the Word of God and don’t be so arrogant and superior and think that you have the right to come and accuse those who actually know the Bible and take it seriously – of not reading it!
For a start I suggest you read this “1Tim. 6:6 “But godliness with contentmenta is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
Kindly read the Bible and Understand it Wallace! not just reading.
I agree, the prosperity gospel is one of the biggest threats 2 the church today.Preachers saying and proclaiming exactly what the crowd wants 2 hear. Non-mature Christians like this preaching because it appeals 2 their pride, and swallow mindset.They don’ t want 2 recognise suffering for Christ, it is just not on 4 them.Christ wants 2 bless u, but at the same time people must learn 2 trust Him and not the prosperity message.
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Reblogged this on thewisethingtodo.
The only think to strike a wrong note here is your self-description as an “unknown” minister. Not exactly true any longer, David.
Even compared with him, I’m not sure: I hadn’t heard of him before last month.
Have you heard anything back yet, David? I wouldn’t hold your breath. Men like him are, of course, too busy to reply to us everyday folks. Don’t like his preaching either. Very money oriented.
Maggie
You perha[s should let him know that we have an airport in Dundee where he can land his jet enroute to Abrdeen
Is it not a church matter? Why do we have to do it publically, creating entertainment for people who do not care about anything else but the ‘Jeremy show side of it’?
Tunde – good question. The answer is because the heresy is being taught in public. The public are being fooled and the church is being deceived. Its not about entertainment (unless you have been to a Creflo Dollar show) – its about truth.
Thank you Tunde. I stand with you on this.
With permission, reposting this on crazyrev.blogspot.com
Thanks, as always, for a clear and incisive analysis. Mind you, I do have to agree with Curlew!!!!!
Blessings, and shalom.
Why are you asking permission, it’s a public letter. This is exactly wax the author wanted attention and people to agree. If not he would have conract him privately. This is manipulation which is witchcraft
Amen !
I listen to Creflo all the time and I don’t see what you guys see, being broke does not make you any closer to GOD then a person with money. Why is it that this man of GOD can’t have a jet or cars . All of Gods kings in the old testament had wealth even some who were not kings like Abraham and there was still poor people around in Rhodes days,stop letting envy take over your mind David since that your first name Creflo has help me and many others that have not given him one red cent. Those evil spirits sure can a mind you can’t see the good in a man so busy wording about what he have stop Judging people!!!!!
Evil spirits, envy….and then you urge us to stop judging people! Maybe time for a little self awareness before condemning others?
My concern with this lies in suggesting that someone is not welcome in a country because some disagree with his theology. Does that not gIlive carte blanche to others to say that ‘x’ is not welcome in their country because they disagree with their thology on, for example, biblical views on sexuality? Is it not better to let the wheat and the tares grow side by side and enable greater freedom for the true gospel to be preached in the process?
Jeff – you are missing the point. Anyone is welcome to come and visit Scotland. Not everyone is welcome to come and preach heresy in the churches. Preaching the gospel includes warning against false gospels – don’t you agree? Otherwise Jesus and the apostles must have got it wrong!
It’s funny the ‘things’ that these ‘preachers’ seek….. Paul’s definitely the other side of the coin! Posted your stance on my FB wall… God bless you Pastor.
2 Corinthians 11:23-30 Are they servants of Christ?—I speak as if insane—I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern? If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness.
David, I agree that preaching the gospel includes warning against false gospels. However I do think that this involves highlighting and, if necessary, warning a church where they are in danger of allowing a false gospel to be taught. I recognise that you have sought to do exactly that in this case. However I do think that the responsibility then lies with that church, which is a different matter to separately seeking to prevent that person from preaching-and thereby giving others a rationale for seeking to inhibit freedom to preach the true gospel .
Jeff – who is seeking to prevent him from preaching? There is freedom of speech in this country – I am not advocating the government ban him! I am just simply stating that any church which claims to follow Jesus Christ should not welcome him and should not encourage his false teaching. I find it incredible that so many Christians seem to have difficulty grasping the notion that false teaching should be opposed! I guess they would struggle with Jesus, Paul and the early church!
David, please be assured that I absolutely agree with opposing false teaching. I spend a fair bit of time doing it myself. It’s simply the tactics to be taken in relation to it that I am questioning.
Fair enough – but what are you questioning?
Amen
The Article indicated he was invited, is that not true?
Its not about disagreeing with someone’s theology..its that his theology is incorrect. The Pastor is doing what he should be doing and that is guarding the sheep.
Sir, Ephesians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:22 and 2 John 10 -11 clearly states we should not welcome false teachers. Property teaching is wrecking people and polluting the true message of Christ – Salvation for all who receive him, who believe in him and live for him. Prosperity preaching is condemned in James 4:3. Creflo Dollar said in one of his ‘preaching’ that he “Does not want to go to heaven broke” Is money used in heaven ? His preaching is not of God. He should be denounced for leading people in the way of Baalam.
If Dollar does come then the spiritual battle will be fierce and furious. On your knees church!
It already is….and as you can see from some posts on here – sadly its Christians who are leading the charge!
Hi Mr Robertson I noticed you never replied to my answer on Facebook that according to Ephesians 1:13 sinners are sealed with the holy spirit when they believe and a baby can’t believe, so you shouldn’t be sprinkling babies with water (calling it baptism) and misleading them and your followers with the Calvinistic notion that they are now children of God, peoples souls are at stake. When I speak to the unsaved offshore where I work or when I go to the orange walks to evangelize, I find that the religious ones think they are already Christians because they have been misled by clergymen like you and they often say “But we are Christians we’ve been baptised” and they know nothing about being born again, or think that was when they were born again, no doubt you’ll keep doing it as you’d be out a job otherwise and have no money coming in.
Brendan – you need to look again. Your response was answered. I assume that you don’t think it is ok for born again Christians (of which I am one) to misrepresent or lie? I have never taught that any kind of baptism (whether child or adult) saves. It is only the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Do you think it is right for ‘born again’ Christians to attribute false motives to people they don’t know. I don’t preach the gospel for money…you are apparently an oil worker – I suspect you get more in a day than I earn in a week. Please don’t be so ignorant and nasty and then claim that its just the gospel makes you do it!
I’m not doubting that you are a true believer David, because you have in brackets (of which I am one),and when I said people have been lied to when they were told they became children of God when they were sprinkled by a clergyman, I’m meaning that the lie comes from the enemy Satan and has first of all originated in the Catholic church, of which I came out of, then that deception entered into the reformation thanks to John Calvin who brought it when he left along with some other of his/Augustan’s other false teachings, so then whoever does that (practices baby Baptism) they are believing that lie and also giving that person as he or she grows up the false notion that they are Christians, I’m not saying you are deliberately lying, but you are believing a big lie, that a baby is sealed when sprinkled with water (as long as it was by the clergy Calvin said) and that baptism is a sign? You often talk about the gospel, well a baby can’t believe the gospel and no one in the bible ever baptized a baby, and the bible says nothing about baptism being a sign, or a seal, as it is only symbolic of the rebirth, Ephesians 1:13 says “After you believed the truth the gospel of your salvation you were sealed with the holy spirit who is the promise and the guarantee of your salvation” as I said first a person believes, then they receive the holy spirit then they get baptized which means to Immerse, but people like you have the cart before the horse with baptism first then the holy spirit and the hopefully they will believe when they grow up, It doesn’t make sense, the Westminster confession of faith has under the title of Baptism that through Baptism they are grafted into Christ, is that the olive tree in Romans 11 they are talking about?. And I don’t know what you mean above when you so “Please don’t be ignorant and nasty then claim that it’s just the gospel that makes you do it” Do What? what are you talking about? do you mean I go offshore just to preach the gospel?, I’ve never said anything like that, I go offshore for the money, but it also gives me an opportunity to evangelize the guys I work with, so the money is why I go offshore, but I also use that opportunity like an offshore missionary, your brother in Christ Brendan Flynn Motherwell
Romans 2:1 “Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.”
Please, Rev Robertson, in the name of our dear and loving Lord, refrain from such harsh judgement of a fellow minister. It is unworthy of you. Do not say he is unwelcome in Scotland – all guests to our country should have a loving welcome, in Christ’s name.
Oh dear Geraldine – you wouldn’t be passing judgement on me would you?! Not very nice and a wee bit hyocritical. You see what happens when you play that silly game. Creflo Dollar is of course welcome to come and visit Scotland – indeed I actually invited him to pop into Dundee for a cup of tea. What he is not welcome to do is come and preach his heresies here. It is unworthy of you to support such anti-Christian teaching…don’t you think?
An interesting choice of text! I have known David Robertson for some years, and would be interested in being directed to any evidence at all that he is practising, or has ever practiced, the same teaching as that propounded by the aptly-named Creflo Dollar!
Dear Jer123, I am not here to defend David nor am I here to debate with you, I am asking for friendly dialogue, if that is possible.
I ask 2 very simple questions. Could you be ever so kind and tell me, for how many years have you been studying and researching the word faith doctrines that Creflo teaches ? Can you also tell me have you found any condradictions with new testament doctrines and these word faith doctrines ?. Do you see any difference between the way Creflo lives and this passage here which describles some of the apostle Paul’s experiences as a top of the ladder church leader – 1st Corinthians chapter 4 verses 8 to 12 ? Last but not least, have you ever heard of the Late Richard Wurmbrand ?
Does the Bible not teach that false teachers will abound in the last days? Creflo Dollar teaches heresy: ‘we need to be walking around like little Jesus’s’, together with his manipulative ways of extracting money from those who can least afford it. Again I make the point – we all get angry at bankers, politicians, sport personalities who prosper at the expense of vulnerable people. False teachers such as Dollar are in another league altogether – but its ok as they are preaching the Gospel? Evangelical churches have been asleep at the wheel for too long. I’m not a member of the free church, nor do I agree them on everything, but thank God someone has the courage to speak out. I remember being at a church mid week meeting about 8 years ago when Todd Bentley was at the height of his fame in a so called revival. People were telling me not to speak out, don’t judge etc but I actually felt physically sick as it was being described before going home and tuning in myself. However it wasn’t long before he was exposed as the charlatan he is. We must speak out, but we must ask God for discernment in theses perilous times we live in and not allow ourselves to be duped. The fact that we have TBN on mainstream TV is absolutely abhorrent to the cause of Christianity in this country.
AMEN!!
Amen to the Amen…..
Thanks for your work on bringing attention to this. As far as I understand the hard work of the gospel in Scotland, this visit could do a lot of harm. But I’m praying that God blesses your efforts and pastors like you. You have brothers far away who have never met you that are praying for gospel fruitfulness in Scotland!
Hello from the U.S. I like you David. I’m reformed baptist (not Presbyterian), but hey, we all have our hang ups 🙂
Just wanted to encourage you. Keep fighting the fight of faith brother! Keep speaking truth in and out of season!
My my, do destiny church pastors really need the salve removed from their eyes or what ! Do you think solid and devout pastors have not tried to address Creflo in the U.S for decades over his corrupted teachings mixed in with biblical teachings ? Do you really believe Mathew 18 has not been attempted with Creflo and his buddies over the past 30 years and has fallen on deaf Creflo ears ? What on earth do you think fuels one of the most worlds famous atheists Dan Brown to produce a documentary titled ‘ Miracles for Sale ‘ which exposes sharlatans in this perverted word faith movement. I recommend this documentary for all to see. Many atheists can see ever so clearly that Creflo is a sharlatan and does not represent the biblical and historical glorious Christ. These are people who have no desire for Christ and yet can see what is obvious. My, my, my – Wake up church this is a no brainer for anyone who thirsts and hungers for Christ. If Destiny will not listen to Christians then at least listen to some atheists who can tell the difference between black and white, hot and cold, the person and teachings of Christ and the teachings of Creflo. David, I hope I am so wrong and that Creflo does visit you, yet I can see the cup of tea you pour for him getting really cold whilst waiting for him to show up.
For the sake of Christ’s church, I hope I am so wrong and need rebuking for what I have written, yet after having believed, taught and finally escaped the destructive teachings of word faith doctrines myself for over a decade I am certain destiny will not listen. Jesus did tell us that the wheat and the weeds will grow together and then at the end he will sort it all out.
Even in South India there are many preachers evangelist and tele evangelist who promote “Prosperity Gospel” and have become very wealthy. One preacher even started an University for science & Technology. He said Jesus spoke to him to start that University. But sadly, when he died he couldnt take this university with him to heaven and left it to his family to manage.
i live in the U.S. & have recently stumbled across Creflo Dollar on a website called pimppreachers.com . i was astonished by the concept of mega churches & how many of them exist. Though, i’m not heavily religious i certainly recognize the harm the people featured on the site do to others. – They are no better than cult leaders basterdizing faith & hijacking religion for their own $$$ gain, yet they have titles such as Rev, or Pastor so they gain a flocks trust. SMH . Kudos to the response penned by Pastor Robertson.
This is a link to a helpful article by Conrad Mbewe on the lost art of polemics. He is pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka. African churches have been badly hit by the prosperity gospel.
http://www.conradmbewe.com/2016/05/lets-revive-lost-art-of-christian.html
I’ve already expressed my views on this type of teaching in previous posts, but why would Dollar discuss this with you, David? You are likely to be seen as the enemy to be ignored at best. Is he not a self identified Apostle of today, above and beyond error, unlike Peter? He has nothing to gain, but much to lose, such as face and authority.
It would be good if Destiny churches would extend an invitation to you to preach the Good News of Jesus Christ as our all in all, our sufficien
This might be a misstep, to bring some levity to a serious topic, but your invitation to tea, no matter how “wee” it might be, could be seen as far too English.
I know I should avoid this whole topic, but I guess I’m tired of the lie of about Pastor Dollar asking his congregation for that Jet. He never did. Never once did he ask in church for a single donation for that Jet. I don’t understand why its acceptable for non-believers to have wealth and Christians are supposed to be broke and suffering. 1Peter 2:13 says “According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue…” So if God has given me all things that pertain to life and godliness, why can’t I be healthy? I’m 50 years old, I look 30 because God has given me divine health. I have energy to burn – as I’m a gospel musician with a high energy show. And don’t tell me its genes or coincidence. Its God’s blessing upon my life. I’ve been watching people my age descend into sickness and death for years. Its God’s hand on my life that keeps me here like this. And YES, Its true that there are thieves in the temple, but that doesn’t mean that prosperity is not the will of God.
“Name it and claim it” doesn’t bring you wealth, but staying in the presence of God does. Living in the will of God IS prosperous, but you have to actually KNOW God to live in his will. There is a false teaching of seeking God to get wealth. The truth is seeking God – when God is the objective and not a means to an end – brings wealth. You can’t get that close to God and he not reward you. Hebrews 11:6 says “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him… But the goal has to be God and NOT the reward. Yes, I have wealth, but I didn’t steal to get it. God has blessed me with all I need and more. Do yourself a favor, don’t look at Pastor Dollar at all… read the Bible and find out what God says about what living in his will and in his presence brings – for yourself! Stop worrying about the thieves in the temple. ALL of them will come crashing down! You can’t live outside the will God and survive for long.
Sorry Curtis – there is more than enough evidence that Dollar asked for the jet – I wait to hear from Creflo of course – but this video is strong evidence – Creflo asking for jet
Excellent post Curtis. I noticed only the jet was addressed. I am curious as to how he defines Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these THINGs will be added unto you. What about I wish about All that you prosper and be in health. That is “good news” to me. If you want to stay poor you are welcome to do so but you should leave the church that wants to him to come alone. If he is wrong allow God to correct. You said it best, he is not going to listen to you. I wouldn’t answer your open letter either. I don’t see how you are compelling sinner to come to Christ by cyber bullying. ” I ask you not to come here”. Stop the manipulation and be about the father’s business. Creflo is busy impacting lives like mine and Curtis.
If you want to stay poor you are welcome to do so. This is the gospel? This is the good news of Jesus Christ? If you are poor it’s your fault for not believing. If you are sick is because you don’t have enough faith. Strange that you asked me to allow God to correct, but you seem to have no difficulty in writing me to correct me yourself? Don’t you think that God could correct me as well?
I thought Jesus said that too..you of little faith, why do you doubt!!!
So yes,,,its your loss when you doubt that Daddy God hates poverty!!!
We’ll both get to heaven, but my journey will be smooth for He makes all my crooked paths straight!!!!
Who owns the world? Daddy God!!!!
Are you an heir? Yes
Is God poor? No
As He is so are you in this world 1 john 4:17!!!
Sadly its this kind of theology that does so much harm…only the rich and healthy are blessed. Your journey will be smooth…what foolishness and blasphemy.
Well then I’m sorry.. I guess I failed to relay my point..
I’ll admit I’m wrong, forgive my presumptuous post!
Let’s light the world with Jesus Christ!
I’m launching? Will you?
Let’s forget Dollar and look to Christ!! He’s on higher ground!
Once more I admit my error…
But I maintain that God hates disease and poverty.. I think that’s why Christ healed all the sick and why it says he became poor so we might become rich( in all meanings of the word)
Jesus didn’t heal ALL the sick. And he didn’t become poor so that we could become millionaires. And yes we light the world with Jesus Christ – which is why we challenge all forms of darkness and false teaching – including the prosperity gospel.
I quoted bible.. But maybe let me add the verses
Matthew 8:17
Matthew 12:15
Matthew 14:14
2 Corinthians 8:9
You can also check the greek word for salvation.. And place that all over the places it appears in your Bible
Yep – I read them all…and none of them say what Creflo is teaching and what you are defending. The devil is an expert at using Scripture to attack what God says….best not to join him in that! And yes I did check the Greek word for salvation and it does not teach me that salvation means being wealthy and healthy…
Then I have nothing else to say..
All the best in your Christian journey..
Stay blessed Numbers 6:24-26
Maybe one day we’ll agree on something..but for now those are my convictions..
Thanks for your time
Im not your enemy..let us reason together…
No one is a master at understanding His word
But great comfort in thiis scripture Philippians 3:15 ..even what is not clear, God soon reveals..
Wasn’t Abraham a millionaire, David, Solomon, Isaac,, and Paul says we are of the righteousness that comes from Abraham=the one by faith…
Good is good..its His desire to prosper you..Jeremiah 29:11 and Psalm 20 plus Psalm 37:25-26
Or in OT when God says we will lend and not borrow ( only a rich fellow can lend)
We don’t seek money,,we seek Jesus and His righteousness then money just tags along…
Its by grace..I’ve tasted it!!!
Just focus on Jesus and He will meet your needs..
SOrry – thats just not biblical. Focus on Jesus and he will make you rich? There is of course a world of difference and him meeting your needs – but in what sense is a private jet, New York apartment, luxury houses etc ‘needs’ and not greeds?
Curtis, I am truly sorry that you have had the wool successfully pulled over your eyes and been deceived by these false teachers. Can I just ask you to think logically – not even spiritually – for a moment? If your apparent remarkable good health is evidence of your godliness and close walk with God, does that mean that when you “descend into sickness and death”, to use your own words, as you most certainly will one day, you have backslidden? That’s the lie and nonsense of this evil teaching. Good health is a sign of God’s blessing, which means that you need never die if you walk closely enough with God! What errant nonsense. Some of the godliest people I have ever known have suffered years of physical weakness and sickness, even in their relative youth, and have died. Please don’t insult them and so many others with your deception.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not Curtus in regard to looking 20 yrs younger. People say the same about me – I’m 38 but apparently look about 25! I wouldn’t say that that’s a sign of God’s blessing. In fact despite the fact that I’ve been a Christian since childhood, I’m a living testament to the fact that the so called prosperity gospel doesn’t work, life has been one continuous uphill struggle. Yet I praise God for his goodness and don’t think that my struggles are due the fact that I haven’t yet entered into the fullness of all that God has for me,,,,,dribble dribble.
If I want a pep talk, I can watch one of those Ted videos on You Tube or listen to Witney singing One Moment in Time (just now as I was making the tea). Church should not be about self, self and self, it should be about seeking the face of the living God. The only people who will prosper from Creflo Dollars visit are Destiny and Dollar himself. It’s nothing to do with spreading the good news, it’s all to do with money. Except that when Dollar stands before the Lord, the Lord may well say ‘depart from me I never knew you’.
How do you know that David? How do you know that the Lord may say”depart from me I never knew you? David I say this with brother Love, you gain nothing by your continous attack on a felow ministers personalilty.
Lawrence, once again I just ask simply that if you’re going to criticise you criticise what I am saying not what I am not saying. My concern is entirely with Creflo Dollars teaching and heresy. I know nothing about his personality and have no reason to attack it.
God Bless You Sir@Curtis W. Hurley
Mr. Robertson, I have never heard nor know anything of you till now. Thank you for your strong Faith and stance on false teachers. Please stay strong and Reverant to God’s Word.
come on guys the bible says purge the evil doer from the church. there is a line and when someone cross’s it they need to be rebuked and showed that there scandalous sin doesn’t belong in the kingdom of God. dollar crossed that line and he needs to be confronted as many times as people are willing. get rid of the heresy or be marked as a deceiver. get rid of your scandalous sin or be sent to satan. theweeflea you speak a hard language to understand but i understand you because i also speak a hard language to understand. protect the sheep. go in God’s grace.
David,
You almost convinced me to consider your sanctimonious appeal against Creflo Dollar until I started reading your harsh, condescending, rude, and intolerant response to those who do not side with your post. Phisocial heal yourself first! Remove the plank from your eyes before you interfere with the dust on other people’s eyes. I am ashamed of your reaction towards those who disagree with you it shows the kind of person you are- a pharasee who desperately needs some attention. From the beginning of your article to the end it was all about you, how small your church is, how broke you are, etc. I guess you are the one who needs to take a closer look at yourself, search your heart, search your true motive, evaluate your attitude towards people who do not believe like you do.
THANK YOU!
Lawrence – that was a really dishonest post. I know the game. You say that you were almost convinced by my argument but then you say how horrible a person I was etc. Please don’t lie. You never accepted anything from the start and you have just come on here to attack. You can’t say anything about the argument and so you just abuse, hoping that people will just accept what you say about me personally. The article was not all about me (and if you read the four that went before it) you will also find that that is the case. The other trick of course (as well as the personal abuse) is to spout pietistic truisms – of course we all need to search our hearts, true motives, attitudes etc – but that is for me to do. Not you. You seem to have assessed my heart even though you don’t know me. Don’t bother. Remember, as you said, its not about me! Its about the heresy of the prosperity gospel. If you wish to defend that please do so. Just avoid the personal attacks and the dishonesty…thanks..
I don’t know if it was a mistake that you didn’t post my contribution, I thought it is supposed to be a public discussion? If it’s a mistake kindly correct it and post it. Thank you
Lawrence – it was posted. But please understand this is my personal blog, not a public forum for any and everyone to vent their spleen….sometimes posts take time to appear….
Sir nice and direct, while I am a preacher and occasionally teach on biblical prosperity. I noticed I. Part of your letter, you seem to be against “the message” based on the presence of poor and sick people. While there plite is clear in today church. It doesn’t stop anyone from preaching this message even though some refuse to listen. When Christ worked the earthl the world was looking for a warrior leader but He came preaching peace and healing. The world did not want that, so some willing left Christ. Don’t allow the presence of fake currency to make you not believe there is real currency. Healing and miracles are real in Christ.
David,
A Cautionary Tale
I read your article with a great deal of interest. As I too have huge concerns about the message, tactics and motives of Creflo Dollar et al and the word of faith/prosperity gospel message. However, I also believe in the fundamental right to have free speech and so, to some extent, take the view (or hope) that wise discernment will prevail. This is a personal dilemma.
It is an unfortunate truth that a postmodernist re-defining of the the gospel appears to be taking place and churches in the UK seem to be naive, if not complacent in their response. I believe that in part this is a reflection of a ‘selfie’, ‘have it now’ ‘say it claim it’ culture which is becoming endemic in the USA and latterly attaching itself to many well meaning churches in the UK. Many churches continue to be blissfully unaware that the wolf that has crept up in into the pulpit (or video screen) wearing an enticing and attractive mask.
Creflo Dollar’s Chairman of ‘Creflo Dollar Ministries’ Europe’, is a man called Ransom Mumba. Ransom Mumba is a colourful character who developed his ministry in the north of England, established El Shaddai (now global), got embroiled in a series of unfortunate events and then resigned. On travelling to the USA (leaving his now ex-wife behind) Ransom rekindled his association with Creflo, found a new wife and, under the spiritual mentoring of Creflo Dollar, has subsequently seen his ministry go from strength to strength.
Meanwhile a co leader with Ransom Mumba, when he was established in the UK, was Dr Jerome Anekwe who also resigned from El Shaddai (as he genuinely couldn’t tolerate the liaisons and double standards that he had been witnessing). Dr Anekwe established the Destiny Christian Centre in London which has since planted other satellite centres. Unfortunately he didn’t pay his tax returns and was convicted of tax fraud in 2015. Nevertheless, he is now back in leadership of the ‘Destiny Centre’ movement.’
I don’t believe that any of the people above are or were ever malicious or beyond redemption but I do believe that it is so very easy to be corrupted by lust, pride and power. When a ‘person’ is lauded as being the ministry then I believe the seed of corruption has been sown. In more ‘established’ churches and despite their failings there is at least some level of accountability and checks and balances are in place.
Perhaps through this cautionary tale we all might be prompted to be more proactive in praying for discernment and an awareness before the influence of ‘a different gospel’ becomes the dominant message for the next generation.
The UK is not the USA, their religious heritage and culture is very different. In the Dollar camp the influence of Kenyon, Hagin (Rhema Colleges), Roberts, Copeland, Osteen and others is evident, I doubt in the UK many Christians would know what these American preachers have based their preaching on. If Dollar is to come to Scotland my prayer would be, prepare the people and in part that is what you doing.
Eran
While you keep arguing, God keeps blessing him
While you writing mean, you could save a soul
Worry about your own sins,,,God will take care of mine!!!!
#wastedPost
#JustAnotherChristianCritic
Open your eyes to Jesus Christ..He’s worth your effort!!!
Creflo will come and go…but Christ is forever!!!
Focus on the author and finished of your faith!!!
And strangely you seem to find time to write here – to condemn me for writing! I can’t save a single soul, and neither can you or Creflo….and God does not bless heresy….
I simply cannot believe that this bickering comes from those who claim to be children of the same Father, possessing the same Spirit with the same hope of glory? What an embarrassment we are to Him!!! Indeed one of the greatest causes of atheism is ‘christians’. How many ‘christians’ here have a dynamic vibrant relationship with God? Live out life with Jesus as Lord? If we did, we would walk in love and know that Jesus would not do this.
Have we dealt with all our issues and stand qualified to throw stones? Some say he preaches something very wrong … And you have got it all right? If you have, by all means, go ahead and shine your halo then keep the stones coming. We are to look to Jesus, not to any pastor for He is able to use even a pastor in error (I am not saying he is). If just 5 souls are saved during this visit and his teaching, God rejoices. Should we shut the gates of heaven to these because we are self-appointed custodians of the Gospel? God is able to stand for Himself and fight for Himself. He does not need you or me to do this. Let us be very careful in passing judgement.
If he did ask for money for the jet (I don’t know this for a fact), he is a man therefore prone to error, but so are you. The only difference is that any of his errors play on a worldwide stage and yours dont.
And yet Kemi you see fit to join in ‘the bickering’. You are judging who has a ‘dynamic vibrant relationship with God?”. You know that Jesus would not oppose false teachers? And he calls us to contend for the faith. I think that the multi-millionaire evangelist who comes to Scotland to make even more money out of the gullible is far more likely to cause people to turn away from Christ, than turn to him.
If you are going to criticise (in the name of love of course) perhaps you could do the honest thing and critique what is being said, not what is not being said? I was not claiming I ‘have it all right’ – your suggestion is dishonest. Nor am I saying that ‘God cannot fight for himself’ – what a silly statement. If you think like that then God does not need Creflo to come and save Scotland!
You state we should be careful in passing judgement as you pass out many sweeping judgements!
IF you think that the only difference between me and Creflo is that his sins are in public then again you are making a sweeping judgement based on ignorance.
Please save me the sanctimonious, hypocritical, pietistic, judgemental waffle – and deal with the actual issues. If Creflo is a false teacher then the people must be warned. If he is not then I must be condemned for saying he is.
David I sent you a message here on Thursday morning the 5th,? where is it?.
Not published….I get lots of messages and I will not publish them all – partly because I want any conversation to be respectful, have some purpose and not just allow people to do the usual internet ranting and raving. Your post was too long, made too many accusations that I just cannot be bothered taking the time to answer, and was false…so I just left it..
well like I said david your a fly man so I will now expose you with your Idea that Catholics and the pope are Christians, and If you tell any more lies about me, I’ll come up to Dundee to your church and expose you, so I suggest that you quickly remove the lie above that said what I said was false, for your own good you liar. You want to expose Creflo Dollar? well that means it’s OK for me to expose you
Hi Brendan, this is your last post I will allow on here. I don’t appreciate being threatened by anyone. And yes some Catholics and some Popes are and have been Christians – the Lord knows those who are his – not you. There is no need to ‘expose’ me – I am quite open about all I believe to my congregation and everyone else. You wrote “On the other hand if you loved the Lord you wouldn’t be praising the pope and saying that Catholics are christians just because a false prophet like yourself sprinkled water on them as a baby, yes you preach a false ecumenical gospel and ignore the many warnings from scripture pertaining to that, but like I said I will be paying your church a visit one day and i will speak loud and clear to the people there with everything printed off to show them you are a charlatan, you hide behind a computer and insult and lie about true believers and think you can avoid them face to face, we will see about that and your congregation will see you unmaked with the truth about you, cowboy”. I have told you several times that I don’t believe that people are Christians because they were sprinkled as a baby, but you insist on stating that. I’m afraid that is a lie. Brendan you are sadly an example of the kind of unbalanced person who uses Christianity as a reason and excuse for expressing their personal angst and anger. I’m afraid you are just going to have to rant to yourself and any others who are foolish enough to listen to you. When you are ready to have a rational, intelligent and compassionate discussion, please get back to me…meanwhile you won’t be posting any further on here.
Thank you Tunde. It’s so sad. Sad that we are allowing the devil make us do and say things that cause us to become a public spectacle. I’m not a member of Creflo Dollar’s church. But one thing I know – Jesus came for the full gospel. Which is what I have heard Creflo speak. I learnt about walking in right standing with God, health, sexual purity etc from him and other men of God. There is no such thing as a ‘prosperity gospel’. There is a full, complete gospel. Jesus died so that I will be saved from sin as well as poverty, health and barreness. He came poor that I might be rich. So if you are poor, is it possible that there is a part of the gospel you have failed to appropriate, such as the law of giving?
Secondly, I hate it when pastors come to the open to war. And in my understanding I judge no pastor. God himself says he will judge them himself. Period. But please unbelievers are listening and they keep citing these ‘wars’ as reasons why they will never come to church. If it’s for the church, then let’s have the discussion in the church!
And once more someone writes in public to judge those who write in public! Its incredible that people cannot see the inconsistency. And I hate it when people think that they are better than Jesus and the apostles. You say that we must not judge pastors and yet Jesus says we should watch out for false shepherds and Paul exposes them. As for why people don’t come to church? It may be that there are some people who cite such ‘wars’ but I have not come across them…however I have come across plenty people who cite the blasphemous heresy of Creflo Dollar and other prosperity gospel teachers as reasons why they will never come to church. Thats why I am concerned about this. And your insinuation that those of us who don’t accept this heresy don’t preach the full gospel is as offensive as it is ignorant. As is your notion that the poor have failed to grasp part of the gospel!
Whoa whoa whoa…..Jesus did not become poor so that you might become financially wealthy!
That passage is referring to Jesus leaving the beauty, wealth and majesty of Heaven to live in a wicked, broken sinful world to redeem mankind. Please exegete scripture accurately and don’t distort the Gospel!
I come from a charismatic Pentecostal background but I don’t buy into some of the erroneous statements you’ve made!
Jesus came and died on the Cross to save sinful man from the wrath of God. So that whoever trusts in Him will be redeemed and called a child of God. That’s the full, complete Gospel.
Now….does God bless financially, yes. Does He often heal? Yes. However are those the sole / partial purposes of the Cross? NO! When they do happen, they’re pointers to the Gospel and to bring God glory. They’re not necessarily a part of the atonement. We’re restored to a God who can do those things but the function of the Cross was to deal with sin not to break the back of poverty, illnesses, diseases and a lack of comfort.
I am glad to read this comment. Matthew 1:21 states the purpose of Jesus. Any other is gravy on the bread. Matthew 6:33 and Luke 11:13 sums it all up. It is all about the Kingdom of God. 1 John 2:15 say if you lover the things of the world, the love of God is not in us. Let’s focus on Christ and leave this prosperity preaching alone. Work hard and God will bless the work of your hands. Jesus says “His Kingdom is not of this world ” so why do we want our Kingdom in this world and claim we are Christ’s followers ? May God bless us with the saving knowledge of His Word which is Truth.
Hi David,
Please have a look at the YouTube video on prosperity below. It’s probably (in my view) one of the more nuanced and theologically balanced responses I’ve seen on the topic. Would love to hear your thoughts.
https://youtu.be/ZZwBE1949Yo
I think that the problem is that many believers superimpose the Old Testament promises of material blessing made to Israel onto their New Testament beliefs. Whilst God does often bless faithful believers financially, with healing etc, it’s doesn’t always work like that (in my opinion).
Pastor David Roberson open letter to you
Dear Sir
It is good that you mention your age, number of your members and the car you drive. Compare it with your peer friend and you will see the difference.
But do not worry Sir, with great respect I have an answer or solution to your problem, if only you could remove that unbelief, things will be good in your church. God wants to bless us all but with unbelief it is impossible. Even that struggle you mention above, “life has been one continuous uphill struggle”. The struggle shouldn’t be there, it is all because of unbelief. As I pray for you, amen.
Thanks though for taking your time and sharing your view.
Your Sincerely
Concern Brother
Thanks brother….even if you are being a wee bit judgemental! What unbelief are you talking about? I fully trust Jesus…the idea that the Christian life is not a struggle is not one that you will find in the New Testament..I would suggest you read it….Fight the good fight!
The good fight is the fight of faith, if you only have faith to believe for a push bike then so be it! Jesus told us to make righteous judgements, and Paul told us not to judge those outside but to judge those in the church. of course we have struggles, Paul wishes above all things that we prosper….When I read that someone on-line had told Creflo he was not welcome, I found it disgraceful and an embarrassment to British citizens which I am one. I have also been to worldchangers. Do you tell non believers they are not welcome because they don`t believe the same as you, or is your only defence that Creflo [in your opinion] preaches heresy……. No one would reply to your conduct & letter as the nature of it is obvious. in my judgement its something you need to repent of. You ‘named and claimed’ Jesus when you confessed him as Lord and saviour, keep walking and growing in love, with every blessing Jon.
Jon – non-believers are always welcome so that I can tell them of Christ. False prophets who use the Gospel to make money for themselves are not welcome. They are false teachers who should be warned about not welcomed.
Sorry Brian. I fully disagree. The Apostles were martyred for their faith. Would they be considered “failures” for their “unbelief” because things didn’t go “well for them”?
Paul experienced immense difficulties and problems with the churches he oversaw and experienced immense persecution.
Even though God truly does bless us in numerous areas and ways, life often is filled with pain, difficulty and stress. Not due to lack of faith but because we live in a fallen world. God, in His mercy uses these tough situations to make us more Christ like though.
Thank you brother for your life in Christ. Those who make merchandise of Christ bring the name of Christ to Disrepute. Thank you for standing up for the truth of the gospel. Bless you Mr Ajose.
Dear Brain Zondi, our Kingdom is not of this world- John 18:36. While living well is NOT against scripture, earthly possessions are not the true mmeasuresof a man’s blessedness by God. Indeed Jesus says it is NOT in Matthew 19:23-26. Please see Who are the blessed in Mayyhrw 5:3-12.
Our type of car and size of our congregation is not the measure of our Christian blessedness. Which of the Apostle was rich. Please let’s not profane The Gospel of Christ and make merchandise of it. Hear what the Spirit says. Bless you with the saving Knowledge of Christ. Amen.
You sound sincere my brother but I am concerned the level of your anointing if present must not reach the ceiling because Jesus promised there would be tests/trials for those who follow him. Remember,no cross,no crown.However,if you do not carry the anointing for the work of the cross,demonic forces have nothing to worry about and you are safe but not under the wings of ABBA father.This Christian walk is a continuous struggle against good and evil. It is worth it for the sake of our Saviour who has promised to never leave us or forsake us. Shalom
Brian, because of unbelief? Do u really know what u are talking about.The Apostals were matyred, apart from John. You can not be on the prosperity gravy train, and always claim another BMW. Serving Christ is a humbling experience and not lottery ticket to immature Christians who always want 2 hear oooohhhh a new house is coming, a new car ect. Come let’s become real. This fake preaching must stop.God wants 2 bless us, but not at the expense of greedy claiming Christians who are fed sugar coated Gospel that sooth their ears.At the first sign of trouble they have no charachter 2 stand on God”s word because they expected another Mercedes.Trust God even without the money that souds like a good idea don ‘t u think?sorry 4 spelling , english is not my first language.
It just amazes me that people who own a Bible can fall for these charlatans….apparently they just own one and never read it. According get to Creflo if I didn’t pay for salvation then I’m not saved because what he preaches is that God does not respond to my prayers, but rather only responds to me giving money along with my prayers. This is a middle ages theology of “give me money and your sins are forgiven”. News flash Creflo: God’s Word tells me that the only way to get to him is through his Son Jesus Christ, not through finances!…not that we shouldn’t give for the advancement of God’s Kingdom, but the only thing necessary for God to respond to my prayers is that I be saved, then his ears are opened to me, and if my prayers align with his will then my prayers “can” be answered. There are so many false teachers out there, wolves in sheep’s clothing, so be wary of what you adhere to…”Prove the spirits”. If what a preacher is espousing goes against what the Word of God says rebuke them for what they are telling you!
Beloved of God, as Christians Jesus sent us in Matthew 28:18-20 to go preach the goodnews about him. The same command is given in Mark 16:15-20. The Apostles went out and did the same. In Ephesians 2:19-20, says Christians are built on the Foundations of the Apostles, with Jesus Christ as the corner stone. Jesus Christ did not preach material prosperity, neither did the Apostles. Jesus was not rich, neither were the Apostles. As Christians we reign with Christ in the Spiritual kingdom, not in the Material Kingdom. In John 18:36 Jesus says His Kingdom is not of this world. So why do we as Christians want our Kingdom to be of this world ? Hebrews 12 :2 enjoins us to fix our eyes on Jesus NOT on David. If we fix our eyes on David, we are therefore free to marry many wives and concubines. No, Christians are to follow Christ and the Apostles example in the Scriptures. They never preached material prosperity, ONLY Repentance and Grace and Humble godly living. They were never rich from other people’s contributions. Indeed, Paul even worked with his own hands to provide for himself. Contentment is wealth, not the ABUNDANCE of what you scammed from others in the name of God. Bless you with the Saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Amen! To God be the Glory!!Ova Happy Passover!!
The issue here is mankind has often failed to identify his misplaced ”fleshly’ desires with the Power of the Holy Spirit.
There is a distinct difference between personal desire driven by greed, covetousness and selfishness than FAITH which dear friends is a gift of the Holy Spirit. People often confuse the two- Not all the things a believer feels is faith – we must go deeper behind the motive. We cannot demand anything from God – we can ask and according to His will and purpose He will or may not grant it. Yes, God is powerful but He also tells us that the world does not testify of Him so I wonder why we want so much of what the world offers…hmmmmmm.
I dear say the Holy Spirit gets banded about a lot, let us not forget who HE is, He is not a it – nor can He be managed. He is a member of the God-head, powerful in might, holiness and righteousness and in Him is all truth.
Must we lie to ourselves and say yes we love God but we love the World – I assure you you cannot do both. You CANNOT do both! I dare say should we suffer for Christ- NOOOOO, many scream why should we? We are kings and priests oh ye foolish and unlearnt people – you ought not to be of this world but Kings and Priests of Truth, love, righteousness. Could you bear to wear one suit of clothes if God kept it whole all you life and charged you to preach the gopsel of God —–think before you answer/ your conscience finds you guilty – or must we wear Armani suits to church, out do our neighbor in a new house or car , or church dress! Have mercy… Oh ye hypocrites, vipers and con artists – parading the gospel as it were wares in a market – ye shall all pay bitterly when you stand before God.Blessed be the God the Heaven , His Son our Savior, the Holy Spirt our Teacher and Guide, the Angels of God that do His bidding without question, The saints of God who serve Him in spirit and truth and Cursed by all others seen and unseen that challenge and usurp the truth of the Gospel -all the way from Jamaica!
Thank you Creflo for the Great work you do. You feed the poor, pray for the sick and preach the good news (the gospel). We support you!! It seems to me, the poorer you are, the more God loves us. People work for sin (money)? You must only have enough, that you cant give to others, that is selfish!! The blessing of the Lord makes rich and ads no sorrow to it! He said, He came to give us life in abundance to the full, till it OVERFLOWS!! My plans is to prosper you, and not too harm you! The Lord maketh us rich!! Money is not wrong, but the love of money! You actualy say we must be sick, poor, negative and have no hope! I wish I can introduce you too my Jesus!!
What a strange confused post! If it is true that the poorer we are the more God loves us (as you state) then he must really hate the multi-millionaire Creflo Dollar! What is Creflo’s great work? Using the Gospel to fleece the poor in order to make himself rich? Hardly the work of Christ.
Richard, Yes God wants to bless us, and God loves us and cares for us. That is not the point. The prosperity preachers in most instances and almost all of them are in it for the money. It is a fact , they will always through your seed in, and then your harvest. God loves a cheerfull giver, yes., but i don’t have to give to receive something from God. This attitude reduces my blessing towards what i do and not God’s grace and favor. God gives to me whether i give or don’t give. But these oaks abuse the gospel and make it idolatry. Bottom line is, there is nothing wrong with money, but people can not handle it, whether they are a hollywood star, or a greedy pastor from the pulpit. Believe me they do not give most of this money for the gospel. Most of it goes to their pockets and the rest is given to the needy just to sooth their conscience.
Forgive us for not calling you an arsehole, Creflo Dollar, but most unfortunately that’s what you are ! You preach the Gospels & pluck $65 million for your personal private jet. You do NOT preach the Gospels but abuse them for your own ends. Why should any sane person listen to you, of all people preaching, especially when you do not follow the Gospels yourself ? Perhaps that cunt, Benny Hinn will agree whole heartedly with your Gulfstream jet.