If you want to know how our new ‘tolerant, loving, liberal’ society works then let me share with you a most extraordinary 12 hours of what has amounted to intimidation, bullying and sheer vitriolic hatred. Last night there was a twitter and FB storm against yours truly – because of our latest Quantum of Solas Podcast – especially the comments about the Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner media storm. http://www.solas-cpc.org/wp/2015/06/quantum-of-solas-32/
Here are just a few samples….
“In the real world, who cares what these fascists (Solas and the Free P’s) say about anything?”
“Hate speech”
“DAR is the most hateful man I’ve ever come across.”
“Celebrity who craved pair of tits slagged off by pair of tits who crave celebrity. ” (this incidentally was the most ‘liked’ post on SS – showing the level of maturity!)
“SOLAS is nothing but a mouthy right wing pressure group with virtually nothing to do with
Jesus or Christianity.” (the notion that Gordon Wilson or yours truly are ‘right wing’ is hilarious for those who know us….there are other members of Solas who could be called that…but we are a non party political organisation and welcome people from all political backgrounds).
“Corruption ? Is DAR paying royalties for the music in his podcast?”
I put this last one in because it indicates how the new thought police try to intimidate, harass and bully. Firstly they call you all kind of names, then they threaten you. In this particular instance with reporting us for copyright theft. Sadly for the individual concerned we do have a licence for playing these snippets of music. But the threats continued. We will report you to the press/police for hate speech. It is really wearing.
And its not just the internet trolls or the militant secularists from Secular Scotland. Now an SNP councillor from my own city also decided to join in the fun and stick the boot in. Amongst other tweets Councillor Gregor Fisher Murray declared “You’re acting like children. The Wee Frees and their ilk are an embarrassment to Scotland.” Councillor Murray of course does not care about the abusive and ‘hate speech’ term ‘wee Frees’. Indeed Councillor Murray seems not to care for anything that goes against any of his pet subjects. He also tweeted “The Courier is an utter embarrassment to journalism. They simply do not care for accuracy in the slightest.” And he has been blocked by the Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie. He is quite happy to mock Christians in general and Catholics in particular- “If your Catholicism is causing you to question your vote, remember, Jesus had 2 Dads and a surrogate mother. “ Sadly Councillor Murray is an example of a worrying trend in Scottish politics, the Cybernat who just knows that he is right in everything and everyone who dares to disagree with their point of view is automatically to be classed as an idiot, shouted at and bullied. The irony is that I am an SNP supporter. Is this really what the new politics is? A councillor who behaves like an adolescent teenager with a keyboard and abuses and mocks his constituents? I wonder if the SNP will actually exercise any discipline and rein this kind of behaviour in?
But lets return to the issue. Was I using ‘hate speech’? I stated that the whole episode is gut wrenching and nauseating. And I stand by that. It should be obvious from the context that I was not talking about every single transgender person, nor even Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner as an individual. I stated that the whole issue is complex and not to be trivialised and that is precisely what the whole celebrity, Vanity Fair thing does. I also pointed out that it made me feel ill when people say that Jenner was being brave. And I stand by that….a soldier who loses a limb rescuing a colleague is brave, a celebrity who announces a sex change on the cover of Vanity fair, and whose own mother even doubted that he was doing it for anything other than money, is not brave. It may of course have been entirely co-incidental but a month before the 65 year old man decided he wanted to be a woman, he stated filming for a new reality TV show.
Have a look at this Forbes article.
My concern is that this whole issue is being trivialised and that the same emotional and irrational bullying that accompanied the SSM debate, is now happening with the transgender debate. For the likes of the Councillor Murray and the unthinking automatons of SS, there is of course no debate. But for me there is. And not just because of ‘religious issues’. I think of the mother who finds out that her teenage son has been told at school that he is probably unhappy because he is a woman trapped in the wrong body (by a teacher desperate to show that she is ‘right on’ when it comes to transgender). I think of the teenager who commits suicide because they have not received adequate support or help because of their conflicting feelings about identity. Or the older woman who used to be a man and is not desperately unhappy but doesn’t know whether to change back or not.
Caitlyn Jenner is a product of a shallow and superficial culture and ‘her’ celebrity status can and will be used for great harm. I also think that is a collective insanity coming over the nation – do the metro-elites really think they can present with a straight face someone who won gold at the 1976 Olympics as a man and now say they are to be remembered as a woman. Meanwhile in Scotland LBBTQQAS groups are calling on the Scottish Government to introduce a third gender for those who feel they cannot identify with the male or female sex. One wonders why limit it to three? Why not have several more then we can change our gender as often as we change our clothes!
And of course it won’t end there. If my feeling that I am a different gender to the one I was actually born with is accepted, then what if I feel that I am a different race? What if I am a black man trapped in a white body? How dare you deny me my feelings? I demand surgery on the NHS, a new birth certificate and that you re-write history for me! Far fetched?….read this…http://www.christiantoday.com/article/rachel.dolezal.civil.rights.campaigner.who.pretended.to.be.black.resigns.from.naacp/56349.htm
And forget transgender…that will soon be ‘so last year’. What about transabled? What if I only want to have one leg..? Why should that not be allowed? Its my body and my choice!
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/transgender-thats-so-yesterday.-now-meet-the-transabled
As it happens I was sent an extraordinary document which shows the kind of thing Scottish Universities are now teaching future teachers. Apparently homophobia is “an inevitable consequence of hetrocentrism: the expression of fixed understandings of gender”. In order to combat this we need to get rid of the ‘hetrocentrist’ nature of Scottish schools. In other words Peters Tatchells great dream, of a non-gender specific, not sexuality specific, society will soon come to pass. I wonder if they have any idea of the incredible harmful consequences that this will have for the whole of society? It will lead to the dehumanising of humanity, and the sexual exploitation of the poor, young and vulnerable by the rich, powerful and perverted.
I don’t hate Bruce Jenner or his new expression, Caitlyn. He is not a freak, he is a human being made in the image of God. I hope and pray that he will get out of this celebrity, commercialised and confused culture he seems to have bought into. On a more general level I hope and pray that the apex of Gods creation, humankind which was made male and female in his image, will stop playing God and trying to re-invent humanity. Meanwhile I won’t keep quiet. I won’t be bullied by thought police from the militant secularists, or immature ‘New SNP’ local councillors who need to learn some degree of tolerance, respect and rationality, before they start making decisions on behalf of the rest of us. And instead of being the most ‘hate filled man’ they have ever met, I will pray that God will fill me with his love so that I may speak the truth in love and not the anger, fear and bitterness that I sometimes feel. For it is not just Bruce Jenner who is a weak and confused person….so am I, so are we all. Lord Jesus have mercy…..
PS. I will just add this a couple of days later..from one of the leaders of the Scottish Secular Society – Garry Otton “You are probably one of the most hated men in Scotland, DAR”…to which the only response is “if they have hated me, they will hate you also”.
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
David, don’t be discouraged by the opposition. Unfortunately some choose to ignore God and live without him. The following words were true almost 2000 years ago and society has not improved. Their present age was ungodly, so is ours.
Titus 2:11-12. For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
“I will pray that God will fill me with his love so that I may speak the truth in love and not the anger, fear and bitterness that I sometimes feel.”
There isn’t any right or wrong with feelings, we all have them. Anger and fear are only natural when one feels threatened and when ones core beliefs are challenged then it will always incur discomfort. What I see in thee debates very often is that happening on whatever side there is. I’ve been called “obviously conservative”, “woolly liberal”, guilty of “abuse”, “worth so much” – I am part righteous, and at the same time not without sin.
I’m don’t doubt that Caitlyn Jenner and supporters genuinely do believe that transitioning to a woman and being public about it is courageous and right. I don’t doubt that instead being transformed by the renewing of the mind is a sincerely held belief that comes under fire.
What I see is someone who has had panic attacks as a result of facial reconstructive surgery, and talks of being the real them rather than hiding themselves behind all the “good jobs” and achievements. I hear of teenagers unhappy and committing suicide over issues to do with gender identity.
I can’t make any comment that would give comfort or express a view that would not be hated by someone. However I would agree about love and one thing I am confident of with the suicide is that God was the first to cry and that in any transitioning, transforming or struggling, Jesus is or can be beside us showing us the way with life in its fullest.
Did the SS get the copy-write for the Sesame Street images used during the recent vote in Ireland? Or did the people getting the “cake” made ask for the rights for the picture? Petty but if people want to play that game remember for every finger pointing, there are 4 pointing straight back! Unfortunately the rights of everyone else trump the beliefs and standards which Christians try to stand for, not always perfectly I add. Our Country would struggle if it wasn’t for the work of the church and community organisations. the SS are full of criticism, never once seen their work as a society with those in need, the shunned, Families, Elderly, Just pages of stories from everywhere else but Scotland, with Members who don’t even live in Scotland wanting to be keyboard warriors. I do not doubt some individually help, but lets see the power of their 1791 members in collective action…Noticed the membership drops everyday too… Lets base membership on how many attend the monthly meetings… 20 or 30… David, your boldness and willingness to engage is appreciated! SNP Councillors are feeling like Giants just now, they got a club at westminster now, they are on the bandwagon of victory… Yesterday the UK Gov voted to be able to abolish the scottish parliament at any time… think i can see what the future holds… no Parliament, no future referendum… Tick Tock… Only a matter of time before David C throws the stone. oh and by the way… the SSSNPLGBT society will claim another imaginary victory with your posting of this post… lol And they say Christians are nuts…
The Scottish Secular Society are a political advocacy group – we do not do charitable work in the community – that is not our remit. Are we to be criticised for that? Because for sure we would be accused by David of trying to inflict our secular world-view on a vulnerable audience.
When will you wake up to the fact that David is a troll. And he is trolling for Jesus. Yes Christians are nuts. Ask yourself when is the last time you saw a dead guy alive again?
With regard to your closing question, 2000 years ago quite a few people did see a dead man resurrected. It was once for all, so we don’t expect to see any other dead people resurrected, any more than you do. St Paul agreed that unbelievers would think it was crazy. And if you don’t have any faith, God will give you that too, if you ask. Why don’t you give it a go — what have you got to lose?!
God Bless you for speaking the truth in love. You always get the most flak when you’re right over the target. Be strong and of good courage.
Hi David Greetings from the Great Southern Land of Oz where things are getting dangerously close to those in Scotland with respect to society. Please do not be silent – we need your voice. I pray that the Lord continues to give you strength. Unfortunately all those who support you are more silent that those who oppose. We have a situation here where a Christian couple is really feeling the effects of a backlash similar to what you are experiencing in the media.
Utter nonsense – in Australia there is much that is going the way of the uber-Christian Abbot.
David, unless they repent, Joshua 6: 2 applies – note the tense. Unfortunately, you are bearing the brunt of abuse because yer heid is above the parapet; Whilst others either agree with the world’s view or, as many do, stay silent. We pray brother.
Where does prayer get you?
“Things are big that should be small… its a crazy world we’re living in… what a mess we’re in… nothing left to do but pray… this world, has got to change…” Jamiroqui Virtual Insanity
An audience with the Creator of the whole Universe. And if you don’t believe in a Creator answer one question – WHY is there something and not nothing? Not how but why?
Btw, Christian bigots must love this attention. It must really satisfy their desire for persecution.
Brent, I’m curious about your comment, it’s as if you are calling David a “Christian bigot” who loves the attention and desires persecution. Of course you will realise that if that is the case, anyone could just as easily call your comment ironic, bigoted, loving attention for making it and indulging desire for a backlash. It would be just as valid as yours if they were to.
It seems, does it not, that either side can make such comments about the other? Everyone has freedom of speech to use it as they choose. Of course there is right and wrong happening with Christian circles just as there is right and wrong in secular circles.
I’ve heard times of anyone described as “Christian”, or “believer” or “biblical” as being regarded a bigot by some. Dawkins famously has advocated mocking with contempt anyone with particulr beliefs. Being spoken of that way for nothing other than being different and holding to a particular faith position serves to affirm what Jesus is recorded as saying and great is your reward in heaven for being insulted because of an association with him. Anyone with a modicum of biblical awareness also knows that persecution is part and parcel of being a follower of Christ.
So – what is it you take exception to – is it bigotry or is it anyone who experiences the consequences of following Jesus? In other word is it the bottom line that it is Jesus that you have an objection towards?
The criticism is not for the silent believer its for the believer who feels he must meddle with society and impose his opinions and values on all of us. When will you understand this Adam?
I see Mark, so your argument is that I have a lack of understanding and that criticism is not for the “silent” but for the “meddle” the “imposing opinions on all of us”.
Of course you do realise that anyone could just as easily say that that you are ironically showing lack of understanding, needing to be silent, meddling and imposing opinions and their comment be just as valid as your has been.
So from what you say, you would not be critical of a believer as long as they are silent. There therefore is an element of truth in what you comment about me not understanding. I thought in principle you were an advocate of freedom of faith as well as freedom from faith. Now I realise freedom of expression is not what you re in favour of for a believer – interesting.
My objection is that people use their religion to proclaim their values – as if they are sure God agrees with them.
This includes you, ISIS, Moses, Jesus and anyone else who thinks they can tell us what God thinks – without ever proving they actually know what God thinks, or if a God exists at all.
Surely you can see the damage from this, can’t you?
I’m sure you believe “But I have the RIGHT religion!”
Sure you believe that!
You and every other religious wacko.
Stop using God for your purposes. Stand on your own merits. Argue your own case.
Stop saying “My Daddy says you’re bad – and I know because I believe it so much.”
Stop moralizing as if you know what is absolutely and objectively right or wrong.
Practice some humility and work with Humanity, not against it in favor of some “spirit” that has no vote, makes no contribution, doesn’t pay taxes, doesn’t cure the sick or defend us from harm – all because the “spirit” magically agrees with your feelings about things.
You guys CHOSE your religion, right? Isn’t that what you claim?
What makes you so perfect that you think you CHOSE the right religion?
Because you feel you are right? Stalin thought he was right too…
Sure, you aren’t killing people, but the flaw in reasoning is the same: dictating and bullying people based on superstitious beliefs.
I’m all for having vigorous debate, but you guys aren’t. You think you already have the answer and you declare it to be perfect, objective, universal and absolute.
That’s insane. That’s what ISIS does.
The difference between you and I is that I recognize my opinions on matters can be wrong.
You can’t admit that – not at a core part of your beliefs. At some point, you won’t cross the line to think you might be wrong about your faith – for fear that you lose you carefully constructed house of cards.
Obviously I have an end game, as you do, and I have written about it.
In the end, let this gnaw at you: You claim to have knowledge that is unimpeachable, transcendent, perfect, universal, absolute, objective, etc.. yet, in your heart of hearts, you know you can’t. It’s impossible for you – a finite creature – to have this knowledge. (By this, I mean a deep faith or trust that you know something certain about God/Jesus)
Yet, you vote, moralize and even mock people based on this belief.
I don’t have an objection with Jesus. He’s dead and gone.
It’s his followers that I have a problem with – or Mohammed’s followers, or Krishna’s followers…
Anyone who makes decisions based on supernatural beliefs – especially when it negatively impacts other people who don’t hold the same beliefs.
Don’t like homosexuality? Fine, don’t be gay.
Don’t like Muslims? Fine don’t be Muslim.
Don’t like Christians? Fine don’t be Christian.
Don’t like abortions? Fine, don’t have one.
Or, make your case through debate and argument.
And not because your “God says so.”
And yet Brent that is precisely what we do…we make our case through debate and argument…and all we get from you is abuse and caricature.
Brent,
So, what I take from you is an objection to anyone who promotes bigotry as if they are sure God agrees with them. I agree with your objection. As mentioned, I stated there being good and bad in Christianity. Of course not being Christian does not make someone inherently better or less likely to be bigoted. Anyone claiming such is discriminating on the basis of religion, where religion for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 is any religion or no religion.
Also facts are established by what is true, not opinion or assumptions. It is always uncomfortable to have on’e assumptions challenged. I counted over 30 assumptions / opinions in your last post – none supported with evidential, reasoned argument. It would be a simple task to deconstruct each one if space allowed. Unsupported assertions make weak arguments. It would be just as easy for anyone to say you are being bigoted in the way you are coming across and their idea would have as much validity as yours have.
Yes absolutely I can see the damage that bigotry causes, you mentioned you have a problem with Jesus’, Muhammad’s or Kritsnia’s followers but not with Jesus. Yet you claim that bigotry includes Jesus according to how you define bigotry. So, you have answered my question, in one sense in that you have perceive Jesus as being bigoted but then you later say you don’t have a problem with him.
When you figure out where you stand with that and offer an reasoned through argument for debate, then a debate will be possible. It’s only going to work if both of us are doing that. I agree with you that to mock people based on a belief and them being different is not helpful. If we are to continue to exchange views, let’s then start off with not disrespecting each other over differences of belief or non-belief.
I’d suggest that caricaturing all Christianity by likening it with the terrorist ISIS organisation is mocking on the basis of your belief. I would respectfully suggest you apologise for having done that and give assurance in future not to do so in the interest of having the “vigorous debate” that you are all for.
I am glad you do object to people negatively impacting others – me too!
You’re doing a good job, David.
A long term friend of mine is transgender.
As a child (in a European country) he always believed he was in the wrong body. He came to the UK as a late teenager and, after appropriate assessments, underwent gender re-assignment surgery (which has not been problem free over the years – he has had related ongoing medical and surgical issues).
In his twenties he was brought to church by friends where he heard the gospel for the first time in his life and was soundly converted. Indeed he says that it was as if he had been waiting all his life for this. Over the years he has gone on in the faith.
However the changes to his body were irreversible and he continued to live as a man. Eventually, following changes in the law and after a lot of Christian counselling, he married a Christian woman (also a long term friend of mine) and the two live a quiet but happy life, members of a local church.
As David has pointed out this issue is very complex, but the idea that Christians are “phobic” towards transgender folk is completely FALSE, as demonstrated by my friend. Like all of us they merit love, care, compassion and understanding.
However, like David, I too detest the vulgar exhibitionism that we now see paraded before us in the media. The grotesque image of a man with a beard (Conchita) wearing a sparkly frock being feted throughout Europe as the man/woman of today is, in my view, deeply disturbing and shows how far as a nation we have fallen. The “selfie” generation is merely old fashioned idolatry dressed up in new clothes, frequently with sequins!
The bible tells us that when Adam and Eve sinned they sowed fig leaves to cover up their nakedness. Today’s generation does not even seem to want to do that.
Of course the world will hate us for expressing this view, but then they hated Jesus right from the start. Unredeemed humanity will always want to kill the God who created them.
I am genuinely sorry you’ve been abused over this but on this occasion I think you have stepped into an issue that will be hard for you to understand and deal with. I have taken what I hope to be an accurate look at the content of the podcast and fear that your ambitions for Christianity in Scotland are dangerous to people who need more support than being told that they are wrongheaded. You are also displaying a high degree of arrogance on this issue:
http://mclellan.scot/blog/2015/6/17/david-robertsons-harmful-christianity
There are ways to have a solid, Christian, Biblical, Evangelical approach to trans issues. The podcast was not one of them.
Douglas…just a few points you have wrong.
1) You assume ignorance and this is something new for me….I first dealt with the transgender issue 25 years ago – and have had trans in my congregation. I have studied it and have several friends who have worked in this complex field. The whole basis of your post is wrong. Disagreeing with you does not mean ignorance.
2) The whatever refers to the celebreity aspect of it…which I was talking about. The Vanity Fair posing.I agree it was not clear and for that I apologise. I do think VAnity fair and the whole manipulation of this is abhorrent.
3) It wasn’t my great mind that saw an ulterior motive. It was his own mother!
You don’t understand the rest of my position. All I can think of just now are the thousands of confused children who will be harmed by this incessant propaganda and this continual attack on humanity and human nature.
If you have had to look at this issue in the past then letting Allys comments that Caitlyn Jenner is both wrongheaded and unnacepting of reality without correction means that perhaps you dealt with the issue dangerously and wrongly.
Do you tell people who are depressed just to buck up and get on with things. I strongly suspect not as you are better than that. Yet the podcast advocated the trans equivalent “don’t worry about your feelings, you look like a man, ergo you are a man”.
And every time you claim to be worried about the children I can’t help but think about Reverend Lovejoy’s wife…
Seriously though, can you point to a study that shows societal acceptance of homosexuality and transgender is harmful to children? Your teacher anecdote shows how not to deal with the issue where young people is concerned but there are better methods than parting their heads and telling them they are wrong.
Be of good cheer, David – a lot of people are praying for you as well as cheering on your stand for truth. You can always spot the foot-soldiers of the Father of Lies – they’re the ones who, not content with the odd slander, will stand truth completely on its head, the full 180 turn, as here.
When one isn’t in the public eye, almost the only opportunity to speak out is in everyday conversations, and I’ve found that when I give my opinion of same sex “marriage” and all the rest of it, people will quite often agree – but in rather hushed tones.
Bullying doesn’t bring about a real change of heart.
Aren’t you also an adult? What is this “father of lies” crap? Satan? You really believe in devils, demons, angels and all that?
Don’t you see how this should make you ineligible to vote? You’re insane!
Brent.
Your comments are regularly offensive on this rather nice blog. You are ranting! You really do need to go and have a lie down, put the light out and keep taking the tablets.
You have become an otton joke. You need to be sent packing with a flea in your ear.
Its true and I’m afraid that I am going to have to limit Brent’s contributions on what is after all my personal blog…I can’t allow his intemperate and often irrational emotive rants to dominate…so Brent I have been really patient…you are welcome to post and to disagree but keep the juvenile stuff for your own blog or the various atheist internet sites where they belong!
mgordon42, why is it acceptable for secularists to meddle with society and impose their opinions and values on all of us, but not for Christians?
Because the secularist offers an opinion that is subject to peer review and the scrutiny of society through reasoned debate. The theist offers an absolutist dictat based on the supposed inerrancy of whichever ancient text he chooses to believe.
The secularist offers an opinion that is subject to peer review and the scrutiny of society through reasoned debate? Wow…the cognitive dissonance is in deep! What faith! and What absolute irrational, unempirical nonsense….just visit any secularist atheist website and you will see the level of ‘reasoned debate’!
Jon,
It’s great what you say about the secularist being subject to peer review and scrutiny though reasoned debate – sounds a lot like what happens in bible studies in church groups. It is easily proved evident that society scrutinises both secularists and theists.
That’s interesting that you perceive theists as you have. There is an element of truth to what you say Some theists do offer the kind of dictate you talk of according to what they believe. It happens.
At the same time, we take social institutions and rules very seriously. Inherently we all desire connection and belonging. A downside to this is that society is heavily invested in keeping our minds occupied so we will not experience a renewal of the mind. Such investment often causes sickness – fixations on peculiar protocols, power structures, taboos and domination – all subtle forms of human bondage.
This insanity can not only be tolerated by most of us but can be insisted upon it to the point of making what is wise appear to be foolishness and what is foolishness to appear wise. We can believe in social influences so forcefully we become willing to destroy anyone who offers a freeing, secure and loving alternative. This can happen in forms of conservative evangelicalism, liberal progresivism and secularism.
Those of us that break out of this programming call other’s bluff, comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable, helping those of us who are lost.
Real security, freedom, love and belonging can never be found in any human or human movement. Instead, Jesus reveals divine truth and love, leaving a legacy.
Hi Jon,
Christianity can be debated reasonably. In fact it has been for hundreds of years and, to my knowledge, the final nail has yet to be hammered into its coffin.
How can anything that is other than absolutist be true? Think about it. Any movement based on relativism, including secularism, is doomed to self-implode as it will ultimately lead to multiple contradictory ‘truths’ or ‘realities’. It’s just a case of watching and waiting.
Reblogged this on A Scot in the wilderness of Italy.
I’m a Catholic, and have no desire whatever to be anything else; but I have nothing but the greatest respect for the Free Presbyterian Church. Its witness is very much needed in the world we live in today. It is saying the kinds of things all Christian Churches ought to be saying. It would be an ill day for Scotland if the Free Presbyterian Church ceased to stand up for the very unwelcome truths to which it bears witness.
Thanks James – we are Presbyterian and we are the Free Church – but we are not the Free Presbyterian church…I know it can be confusing but I appreciate what you said anyway…the FPs would be a wee bit stricter than us!