Incoming moderator says plight of faithful is ignored
The Herald 23 Feb 2015
THE next moderator of the Free Church in Scotland has forcefully attacked politicians for failing to protect Christians around the world.
In a strongly worded open letter to all of the UK’s political leaders, the Reverend David Robertson has asked why they have done nothing “for the most persecuted people in the world”.
The Dundee minister, who will take up the moderator’s role in May, also condemned the promise to make LGBTI rights a central plank of foreign policy as “cheap populism” and said something has to be done for the third of the world’s population who are Christian and being persecuted.
He writes: “I have no doubt that you are sincere in your desire to advocate and fight for the rights of the one per cent of the population that are LGBTI – and please don’t misunderstand me.
“I too have written against the homophobia of Putin and the cruelty of the proposed Uganda ‘gay’ bill. I am not arguing that you should not seek to deal with these things. But there is also part of me that thinks that this is easy for you, it costs you virtually nothing. It’s cheap populism. But for the third of the world’s population who are Christian, you seem to have little time or money.”
Mr Robertson cited the beheading of 21 Christians in Libya last week as an example of the cruelties inflicted on Christians, but added that it was just the tip of the iceberg.
“We long for the day when some sane Western politician will have the guts and the gumption to stand up and say: ‘No, enough. We are not prepared to ditch the foundation and basis of our Western civilisation. And we are not prepared to fund, support and encourage those who kill in the name of their religion’.”
Last year more than 100,000 Christians were killed because of their faith.
Reverend calls for defence of persecuted Christians overseas
The Courier & Advertiser 23 Feb 2015
THE NEXT Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland has attacked politicians for having double standards over lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender rights and those of Christians.
The Rev David Robertson, right, who will take up the role in May, has written to all UK party leaders accusing them of having “little time or money” for persecuted Christians overseas. The minister spoke out after SNP and Labour leaders pledged an LGBTI worldwide envoy — but pointed out that it is thought LGBTI people make up just one per cent of the world’s population, while Christians account for around a third.
The Rev Robertson said last year more than 100,000 Christians were killed for their faith and followers of Christ face official discrimination in 139 countries — more than 75% of the world.
In a hard-hitting open letter to all of the UK’s political leaders, the Rev Robertson said: “You have recently promised to lend your full support to the idea that Britain would make LGBT rights a central plank of British foreign policy.
“I too have written against the homophobia of Putin and the cruelty of the proposed Uganda ‘gay’ bill. I am not arguing that you should not seek to deal with these things.
“But for the third of the world’s population who are Christian, you seem to have little time or money.
“When are you going to appoint your first Christian rights envoy? I’m sure you must be aware of some of what is going on.”
The Dundee minister suggested: “You could put pressure on ‘friendly’ nations who continue to discriminate against Christians, in the same way that you propose to put pressure on those who discriminate against homosexuals.”
The article on which this is based is here – https://theweeflea.wordpress.com/2015/02/20/letter-to-cameron-sturgeon-miliband-and-obama-where-is-your-envoy-for-christians/
We can now be sure David Robertson is a liar.
I demand David Robertson to show how he arrived at the claim “Last year more than 100,000 Christians were killed because of their faith”.
Much like his claim that Jesus rose from the dead, God exists, or that he is a Christian, we will see the claim to be unfounded. Entirely unfounded.
Brent – I thought you were ‘sure’ already! If you are interested in the info – here is the link – go to line 28. It was also in a report from the Vatican to the UN….http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resources/documents/StatusOfGlobalMission.pdf
Interesting that you seem more concerned with trying to catch me out -rather than the horrendous killing that is going – 10,000 or 100,000 is not the issue. That is happens at all is. Its sad that you are so full of hatred for Chrstians that you can be so blaise about it…
I am calling you out on your facts. Did you know where the Vatican got the number? Did you know that 900,000 of the 1,000,000 number your source references was from the Democratic Republic of Congo. (they took 1,000,000 over the last 10 years and averaged it out at 10,000 per year. Somehow, you ADDED to that number by saying MORE THAN 100,000 died THIS PAST YEAR! That’s insane, David. Literally insane to lie like that.).
The DRC is a CHRISTIAN COUNTRY!!!!! It was Christians killing Christians! DID YOU KNOW THIS? DID YOU CHECK THIS? DO YOU CARE?!?!?!? You like to pontificate, but you base it on your utter ignorance. You think because you have read a book or two and have a passionate opinion, you are qualified to speak about every matter. Don’t be an ignorant buffoon, David.
BTW, here’s a fun game. Christians argue that the “kind” thing to do is to dissuade people from being gay because it’s dangerous to be gay – you might be killed by AIDS or Christians… should we now argue that it’s the “kind” thing to dissuade people from being Christian, because it’s dangerous?
The fact is, David, you have such a loose grip on reality and facts. You simply like to spout and this, and the quote about reading Hitler’s Diary, and other claims you have made make it very clear you are not interested in facts or telling the truth.
Even now, you don’t admit to being wrong, you will try to change the subject.
The subject, in my notes to you, is that you don’t tell the truth. You lie. You are a liar. I would ask that you stop, especially because you are trying to influence people to act on your lies. That’s not right, David, even you should know this.
Brent – you are very emotive about all of this. Why do you have such hatred for Christians? Yes – the Pew FOundation did average out over ten years…it just goes to show that you have to check every figure and where it comes from. As Christians we deal in evidence – not just emotive rants. Reuters carried a report last year said that the number of Christian martyrs had more than doubled in the past year – the trouble is what you regard as martyrdom – civilian killing in a civil conflict or the type of beheading done on the beaches in Libya? Open Doors reckons that 100 million Christians face persecution for their faith each year. To me it is irrelevant whether it is 10,000 or 100,000 who are actually killed for their faith…the fact that is happens at all is disgusting. And the fact that you allow your hatred for Christianity to overcome your humanity is a sad inditement of your fundamentalist atheism. (incidentally Christians don’t argue that you dissuade people from being gay because its dangerous). I don’t lie. I hate lies. I often get things wrong but there is a difference. I take it as a great complement that you cannot actually handle and deal with my arguments so you just accuse me of lying….Why do you have such hatred? By the way Brent your rants are becoming more than a little tiresome. Tone them down, deal with the facts and you can continue to express your views here – otherwise they will not be published….they are becoming really boring…
David, you are trying to incite people into action with lies. That’s upsetting to me. Wouldn’t you be upset? I notice you have not retracted your claim, and you make the bizarre claim “As Christians we deal in evidence – not just emotive rants.” – I was the one who brought the FACTs to your attention, which you now seem to accept.
So, David, were “over 100,000 Christians killed for their faith last year?” Were they? Answer honestly – God is listening.
I expect you to publish a public apology for trying to incite people to action by using lies.
Also, your point that you don’t care if it’s 10,000 or 100,000… Note that I have made no statement about how I feel about the matter. Since I am an atheist, you don’t believe that I care about people’s lives, so claiming that I too think Christians, or Muslims, shouldn’t be killed would be lost on you. You would spin it somehow.
However, I can tell you that lying isn’t going to help your cause. It will cause the opposite effect. People will think, rightfully, “Gee, David Robertson seems to say that more than 100,000 Christians were killed for their faith, but he forgot to mention 90,000 of them were Christians killed by Christians in a land dispute, not a religious dispute… If he lies about this, maybe there is nothing to worry about at all. Maybe he’s a reactionary? Maybe he’s a liar?”
If you care about people, tell the truth. Wouldn’t you agree? If you want to save people, tell the truth.
I could even work with you if you were willing to do so. But you will find no good in lies.
Brent – your attempts to accuse me of lying are becoming tiresome. What I wrote was “The Centre for the study of Global Christianity in the United States estimates that 100,000 Christians per year are killed simply for being Christian.” That is the truth. You may question the methodology – you may not like the averaging out but I did not lie. But of far more importance is the fact that thousands of Christians are killed every year – 100 million (according to OPen Doors) are persecuted in some way or other and all you are interested in, is some kind of point scoring. And yes you are right – I am seeking to incite people into action. I am seeking to incite our governments to act in defence of persecuted people and not to ally with the persecutors. What do you object to about that? Last night I met with someone who was speaking of a country where 300,000 Christians are in labour camps….that is what I care about. I don’t really care about obsessive anti-Christian internet atheists whose hatred shines through in every post! I do care about the Truth – thats why I’m not an atheist. It is true that you will find no good in lies. It is the devil who is the father of lies. Not Christ – nor his people. Now I’m done. I’ve given you far too much courtesy and wasted far too much time on your ridiculous rants and accusations. Feel free to leave me alone.
Great to see your open letter getting attention in the press. The scale of persecution against Christian believers is huge and offen heartbreaking to read.
I think it’s so important for our secular, atheist,agnostic friends(and also opponents in some cases) to be aware of this. So many of them view Christians as a priviledged and powerful bunch when the reality is far different. Hopefully,more will take notice and forget about point scoring.
See, David? He thinks the “persecution” is “huge”. I’m not suggesting it isn’t an important issue, but it’s not “over 100,000 per year”.
And, in fact, 90,000 of the estimate was Christian-on-Christian violence. Christians making martyrs of themselves….
Brent – its like getting blood out of a stone – but you are slowly getting there. So now it is no longer about my ‘lying’ but whether the figure given by the centre is accurate or not, whether it was right to average out and whether it was right to include the DRC figures. But the main facts still remain – Christians are by far the most persecuted group in the world and it is right for our governments to seek to help. You rant and rave about that and accuse me of inciting governments to act…to which I do indeed plead guilty. 100 million Christians live in persecution (not 100,000). Exactly how many are killed each year for their faith we will probably never know – but we do know that it is many thousands. SO the question remains – what do you think should be done about it? Apart from mocking Christians?
As for a solution to your problem, I suggest you write pieces to incite people to action – but with facts, honesty and sober analysis. People are mostly good, regardless of their religious, political, sports or music preferences. Appealing to people’s better nature usually works.
It’s how we got Christians to stop persecuting gays, blacks, atheists and other religious people.
Again, to make sure you get my point. STOP LYING to get people to do what you would like them to do. Otherwise, people will think Christians are liars. Not fair, I know, but people aren’t very rational, as you are able to demonstrate.
Now then Brent. I am not Presbyterian, but I do find your comments to be extremely offensive. The Reverend Robertson has been very tolerant with you. This is a nice, gentle and easy to read blog. You are ranting and you need to calm down. You have become an otton joke.
Brent, I hear your argument that appealing to people’s better nature usually works. Isn’t the fact that people whether Christian, atheist or agnostic not persecute? Wasn’t Russel Brand’s response to the recent interview with Steven Fry interesting when he suggested that the duty each one of has first is to address the evil that is inherent within each one of us before talking of others?
I do believe in there being goodness in people but I would stop short of saying that appealing to that working. Martin Luther King wrote this form a jail in Birmingham You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit-ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored.”
Sometimes it takes drastic measures to make things work which I suspect is what is driving David.