Debates Sex and sexuality Videos

The Same Sex Marriage Debate- in conversation with Bill Edgar and Wayne Grudem

This is the video of a roundtable discussion I had last year at the European Leadership Forum with Wayne Grudem and Bill Edgar.


  1. I think you are wrong to connect the modern gay rights movement to the classic liberalism promoted by elites and intellectuals at the beginning of the 20th century. All of those top-down attempts at social engineering failed to catch on with the masses (the soviet effort to abolish marriage and impose “free love” was a complete disaster). The 1960s sexual revolution was different in that it was a grass-roots revolution (spanning a couple of generations) that followed on from the development of effective contraceptives and anti-bacterials.

    It’s easy to get a false picture of the LGBT movement from someone like Peter Tatchell – because activists like him prefer entirely “intellectual” accounts of history.

    1. Thanks Joe – but respectfully I disagree. The 1960’s sexual revolution was not a grass roots movement – it was as much a top down movement by the elites as anything else in the century. I think if you study the period you will see that..

      1. I agree that no period in history lacks a top down input.

        In your talk you mention that Peter Tatchell was once a vocal opponent of marriage. That’s correct – as were most (left wing) gay rights advocates of his generation. The LGBT movement was ‘led’ by this self-appointed elite until technology (social media) made them more accountable to the community they claim to represent. The views of the elite make up the official history of the movement – so it’s not surprising that you might conclude that a “gay lobby” is now seeking a smarter way to destroy marriage.

        What’s missing from this narrative (because neither Tatchell nor anyone from Stonewall will draw your attention to it) is the grass roots sentimental appeal of marriage to the ordinary gay punter. Tatchell may have changed his mind for other reasons but Stonewall’s hand was forced by a Facebook campaign knocking their old fashioned and ideologically based opposition to marriage equality.

      2. Joe – I think your view that the elites have become more accountable because of social media is interesting but unproven. And I am not convinced at all by your claim that there is a grass roots sentimental appeal to the ordinary gay punter – can you quantify that? My view is that Tatchell has not really changed his mind – he realises that redefining marriage in effect destroys it…

  2. Hi David,

    I’ve really enjoyed listening to your discussions regarding same sex marriage. If you have a spare moment, here’s a link to a recent article concerning CEO (now former) Brendan Eich of Mozilla, on what happened after it was revealed that he financially contributed to the passing of Proposition 8 in California. According to some comments this contribution goes back over 5 years, so I’d very much like to know how the information came to light in the first place. I’m sure he was unprepared for the backlash. I thought you may find it interesting, as it illustrates a level of hostility, mob mentality, and inability to engage in civil, rational discussion, concerning the issue of same sex marriage.


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