Scouting without God – comments in the Herald and the Scotsman

I am intrigued both at the headlines used and the lack of understanding of what I was trying to say.   Several people have pointed out that the Cof S and the Anglicans have welcomed this, why don’t we?   Am I, or they, missing the point?  Judge for yourself

Church anger over new Scout promise


The Herald
David Ross
By david ross highland correspondent,
9 October 2013,

THE Free Church of Scotland is challenging the Scout Association’s decision to remove God from the promise its young members make, while keeping the reference to the Queen intact.
Rev David Robertson, Free Church minister in Dundee and director of the Solas Centre for Public Christianity, argues that the new Scout vows are not inclusive because republicans would still have to swear allegiance to the monarch.
The Scouts hope a non-religious alternative to the Scout Promise will better reflect the reality of most young people’s lives.
Instead of saying “On my honour, I promise that I will do my best, to do my duty to God and to the Queen, to help other people and to keep the Scout Law” the pledge has been changed to “uphold our Scout values, to do my duty to the Queen”.
But Mr Robertson suggested that the Scouts “would be better off not asking children to make promises they cannot understand”, describing the pledges as “ultimately meaningless in their content”.
Mr Robertson said: “It does seem a bit inconsistent that God is dropped from the oath but the Queen isn’t?”
He added: “The original Scout law was based upon Baden Powell’s Christianity and the law of God. What are the new Scout law and values based upon?”
He questioned how young people could promise to uphold “Scout values” if they didn’t know what they were.
But a spokeswoman for the Scout Association said the introduction of the additional alternative to the Scout Promise allowed the movement to engage with more young people and adults than ever before.

The Scotsman – 

A FREE Church leader has condemned the Scout Association for “dropping” God from their oath in a bid to attract atheists.

The Scout Association in the UK has announced an alternative version of its membership promise for young people who do not believe in God.

From January, instead of vowing “to do my duty to God”, scouts will be able to promise to “uphold our scout values”.

The new promise will exist alongside the core scout promise, which has remained unchanged for 106 years.

And while the move has been welcomed by the Church of Scotland and the Church of England, along with some other faiths, the Free Church of Scotland has described the alternative as “meaningless”.

Rev David Robertson, Free Church minister in Dundee and director of the Solas Centre for Public Christianity, argued that the new vows were not inclusive because Republicans would still have to swear allegiance to the Queen.

‘Meaningless’

The Free Church minister suggested that the Scouts “would be better off not asking children to make promises they cannot understand” which he believes are “ultimately meaningless in their content”.

Mr Robertson said: “It does seem a bit inconsistent that God is dropped from the oath but the Queen isn’t.

“Does this mean that Republicans are not welcome in the Scouts? Is this really being truly inclusive and relevant to all sections of society?

“What about people who don’t like making promises? Or those who never keep them?!”

He added: “The original Scout law was based upon Baden Powell’s Christianity and the law of God.

“What are the new Scout law and values based upon?

“How can young people promise to uphold ‘Scout values’ if they don’t know what they are?

“This whole episode is just another example of the ethical confusion that our society is falling into.

“The Scouts would be better off not asking children to make promises they cannot understand and which are ultimately meaningless in their content.”

The Scout Association’s decision to make a change follows a 10-month consultation.

‘Sensible’

The Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham, the Right Reverend Paul Butler, who leads the Church’s work with young people, said: “I am confident that our relationship with the scouting movement will continue to flourish.

“In enabling people of all faiths and none to affirm their beliefs, scouting has demonstrated that it is both possible and I would argue preferable, to affirm the importance of spiritual life.”

The Right Reverend Lorna Hood, Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, also welcomed the move.

“I am extremely happy that the Scout Movement has taken this very sensible and inclusive step while ensuring that faith and belief remain a vital element of their ethos,” she said.

This is the first time the scout movement has introduced a promise for new members who are atheists – although alternatives to the core promise have existed for nearly 50 years for Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists.

Hindus and Buddhists are currently permitted to refer to “my Dharma” in the scout promise, while Muslims can refer to Allah.

Wayne Bulpitt, the association’s UK chief commissioner, said the move signified its “determination to become truly inclusive and relevant to all sections of society”.

Mr Bulpitt added the additional alternative promise would not alter the association’s commitment to exploring faith and religion as a core element of its programme.

He said he was delighted the move had been achieved with the support of key faith groups as well as the British Humanist Association (BHA).

Strengthening

Andrew Copson, the BHA’s chief executive, said the move could only strengthen scouting.

He added: “Scouting is an enormously significant youth organisation and in some parts of the country offers the only activities young people have.

“Their initiative sends out a strong signal that the vast majority of young people who do not see themselves as belonging to any religion have values that are worthy of respect and should be explicitly welcomed and catered for in any activity that seeks to be genuinely inclusive.”

The association’s total UK membership has increased from 444,936 in 2005 to 536,787 this year and includes 77,472 girls.

Last month the Guides dropped reference to God from their joining promise, following aconsultation that found the movement needed to do more to include the non-religious and those of other faiths.

2 thoughts on “Scouting without God – comments in the Herald and the Scotsman

  1. Spot on, David. Your question,”what are the new Scout law and values based upon?” is, I think, one of the most foundational questions. The more I think about it, you cannot answer a child who asks why he should not hit another child who upset him if there is no universal moral law: if he doesn’t see that there is moral law, he has no reason to not hit.

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