My name is David Robertson and I am currently working in Australia with Sydney churches as an evangelist, having been the minister of St Peters Free Church in Dundee Scotland for 27 years. (the church is famous for being the original church of Robert Murray McCheyne)…
I am married to Annabel and we have three children – Andrew who is married to Caireen and is church planting in Charleston, Dundee (together with grandsons Finlay and Lewis and Elianna), Becky who is married to Pete in Australia (and our beautiful granddaughters Isla and Evie), and Emma Jane who has married to Chris and works as a prison nurse in Edinburgh.
I do a lot of writing – in newspapers, magazines, on the net and also books. I am the author of Awakening (the life of Robert Murray McCheyne); The Dawkins Letters;
Quench (cafe evangelism) Magnificent Obsession and Engaging With Atheists. My latest book is called A.S.K
I am interested in history, politics, theology, music, sport, art etc. I am a ‘big picture’ person who likes to look at things in a wide context – especially the growth, decline and renewal of the church in the West….my blogs will reflect these interests – some will be published articles, or articles that are on other websites – such as the City Bible Forum, and Christian Today and The Australian Presbyterian – for whom I write a weekly column). I will also put online all newspaper letters and articles that I have published. When I travel I like to write a travel blog as well. I have a great burden for the church in my native country but also throughout the world – and this is reflected in what I write. For me writing is a form of thinking out loud and trying to work out things. I often get things wrong and appreciate correction. I don’t claim any particular wisdom or expertise and value immensely the insights of others. One piece of advice in reading these – please don’t read between the lines. I write what I think (at least what is appropriate for the public arena!) and I try not to speak in code! There is no ‘in between’. Please don’t read into what I say what is not there!
Contrary to rumour I am not a communist, nor a liberal, nor a fascist, nor a Jesuit….I’m not sure what label fits! My supreme passion and interest is Jesus Christ. To him I owe everything. I live for him and I serve him. My only hope in all this writing is that you will share, or come to share that passion. In Christ alone my hope is found….
The ‘wee flea’ name comes from a series of interactions I had on the Dawkins website. He banned me from his site under my own name and called myself, Alaister McGarth and John Lennox ‘fleas living of a dogs back’. I promptly started reposting under the name ‘the wee flea’, and Dawkins, not being aware of Scottish church history or the nickname of my denomination (the wee frees), let it go by for a few weeks…until I was outed…and banned again! Anyway I kind of liked the name…enjoy the blog…
This personal testimony will help you understand where I am coming from:
You can also hear this profile interview on Premier Christian Radio which is really a personal testimony
If you so desire you can follow me on Twitter – @theweeflea
And if you are into Facebook then just look up David Andrew Robertson
For some reason a lot of people read this blog and many want to comment. I welcome comments, including critical ones, but please note I normally don’t publish anonymous ones and I can’t publish all that I get….
David
For those who are new here is an article from Jan 2021 which gives you a taste of some of the different types of articles.
How is
“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads”
And
“ Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
Not a clear ringing biblical endorsement for death of gay men and gay women?
No – not at all. You need to learn to read in context. The Levitical Law no longer applies. Romans does not advocate the death penalty – except that it says that all sin – including lying, greed, pride etc deserves death – and we will all die. And after that face judgement. Neither of those passages encourages, authorises or permits any Christian or state to kill gay people. Precisely the opposite. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
David
The verses seem to be very clear to me; gay folks deserve the death penalty and Christians should be enacting on it. You say it is my interpretation but this IS what your own Bible says. Your problem therefore isn’t really with me, it is with the words of your own Bible and using verses from elsewhere in the Bible to try and explain away what is plainly written convinces nobody
The fact that the verses seem clear to you – does not mean that your clarity is right. In fact it is the opposite. Romans does not say that Christians should impose the death penalty on gays (nor for that matter does Leviticus)….but you see what you want to see – so that you can both blame and feel a victim.
I would like the opportunity to clear up a couple of anti Christian myths. Homosexuality is a choice. You can chose not to be Homosexual Romans 1 does not give Christians a command to murder homosexuals. The only places where homosexuals are put to death is in some Muslim countries. Jennifer you are making hypothetical statements that no Christian agrees with. Yet you chose to ignore the killing of homosexuals by some Muslims.
David
1) Judging by your response here it is quite apparent that you have not really understood my previous counterpoint. If something is a biological trait in humans, like homosexuality, as proven in the study you provided and in all the other evidence I’ve given you, then nurture has nothing to do with it! It is all nature. This in direct contrast to Christianity which is 100% personal psychological choice and no biology involved whatsoever.
You clearly either have no understanding or are confused about what is actually being said here, judging by your response. As I said in a previous post, you will seemingly choose to believe in whatever you want to believe irrespective of how much evidence and fact is given to the contrary so debating about this further is useless. You are clearly strongly emotionally wedded to your position and logic doesn’t work with emotion so I am wasting my time here obviously.
2) I’m not debating about this with you any further; there is no evidence any of us has any control over who we find sexually attractive. The woman in the video you linked appeared to be bisexual but clearly lacked the knowledge of bisexuality to say she was. Quite common amongst the older generation where LGBT issues weren’t really a thing talked about.
3) There is just no objective harm in two consenting adults loving each other; if you disagree then the onus is on you to provide evidence that a monogamous loving homosexual relationship is innately harmful. This is of course in direct contrast to the child sex abuse and child rape perpetuated in both the Catholic Church and in Protestant churches (in the latter case at a greater rate)
4) I’ve given you comprehensive evidence that the Bible directly endorses the death penalty for gay men and gay women and that Christians in the world today still believe that this is the correct and moral punishment toward the LGBTQ community. That some Christians don’t subscribe to this view, such as yourself, is in-spite of the Bible, not due to it. You are ignoring and refusing to acknowledge all the evidence I have thus far provided on this point, and in point one, so I see no reason to believe you will also not do the same given more evidence. As for your claim that it isn’t “real” Christians doing this, David, I see no objective reason to distinguish between a Christian that rapes a child or kills a gay person or one that doesn’t. If a person claims be a Christian, I’m inclined to believe them! It is their choice to follow a certain religion, after all! No true Scotsman fallacy at its finest.
I’m sure you’ll be more than glad to know anyway that true to my claim I gave in the comments of your post about conversion therapy I have now written to my MP and Boris Johnson himself in defence of your religious liberty to believe in and practise the nonsense that is GCT. I believe in your right of religious liberty David, despite the fact your book says I should die for something I have no control over, despite the fact that evangelical Christians still encourage gays being killed in Africa and despite the fact that Christians have always sought to punish, kill and persecute the LGBTQ community throughout history (and still do.)
1). Again you are missing the point. The studies show that nature and nurture are both involved – with about 25% being biological. Its funny that you claim to be logical and rational and yet just ignore the studies you say proves your position.
2) Your condemnation of Julie Bindel (and numerous others) is typical of the way you have argued here. She doesn’t agree with you so she must be wrong – you can’t deal with her arguments so you dismiss her by calling her old and bisexual! How logical and tolerant!
3) “There is just no objective harm in two consenting adults loving one another’? Are you sure? All depends on what you mean by ‘love’ and by consent. Its not as simplistic as your soundbite. For example do you think a father and adult daughter who love one another do no harm? Child sex abuse is perpetrated throughout society – including shamefully the church. Be careful about thinking that correlation =causation. Almost 80% of child abuse against boys is same sex. Do you really want to argue that?
4) You think you have given me direct evidence the Bible advocates the death penalty for homosexuality today and that this is what Christians advocate. You havn’t and we don’t. I know its what you want to believe – it allows you to dismiss and attack. But it ain’t the truth. It’s also a rather bizarre and extreme notion to say that if a person claims to be a Christian then they must be one. It’s like a man claiming to be a loving husband and you believing him, even though he regularly beats his wife. But you believe him!
5) Thanks for your support for my freedom. I also think you should have the freedom to perpetuate your myths and lies about Christians. The easiest way to defeat the darkness is not to ban it – but to let the light shine!
David
1) You are conflating (either dishonestly or otherwise) non-genetic pre-natal biological causes with genetics and have clearly understood absolutely nothing in the previous replies to you. All genetics is biology but not all biology is genetics. I think you need to go back and re-read the replies given to you thus far. The (later) study you provided focused only on the genetic aspect of the homosexual orientation, not the other non genetic (but still) biological causes of homosexuality which were established as proven by the study the 3000+ odd twin pairs I provided to you originally. The researchers on the study you provided to me even affirmed these earlier proven non-genetic biological causes on homosexuality, proof of which they did I gave to you in my previous reply to you. The great thing about science, David, is that it’s true whether you believe it or not. There is 0 evidence that the homosexual orientation is caused by nurture, it’s all nature.
2) I am condemning nobody, it’s an objective fact that who we are attracted to isn’t under our own control, as I said, if you disagree, try to force yourself to be attracted to something you normally find repulsive. It’s also an objective fact that LGBTQ education is less prevalent amongst older folk.
3) Love is objectively not harmful by definition; If I have to explain to you how two consenting non related adults loving each other is different from raping a child then quite frankly we have bigger issues than I thought. As for your claim that 80% of paedophilia is perpetrated by adult males against boys I’ll need to see some evidence please, The current scientific evidence states there is no link between adult males attracted to other adult males and paedophilia.
https://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
4) Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1: 26,27 and 32 objectively says that those that engage in same sex acts should die. I’ve also given you evidence that some Christians want to kill gay people. You can delude yourself that this isn’t the case all you want, but it is. Given that there is no objective scientific metric for distinguishing a non Christian from a Christian then why should I have any reason to doubt someone who tells me they are a Christian then proceeds to kills a gay person or rape a child?
With respect to your argument about Lev 20:13 and Romans 1:26,27 and 32. You’ve given me a weak reason that Lev 20:13 doesn’t apply (although I’m not fully convinced as Jesus says not one jot of the law will pass away and that he didn’t come to abolish the law)
There is absolutely nothing in the rest of Romans chapter one that states that the death penalty applies to all sinners, not just those who engage in homosexual acts, otherwise why would Paul single out same sex acts in this chapter? Paul is quite explicit that he considers only gay people as (filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy) and that we deserve death for this.
5) I don’t know if you know this but you might be relieved to know that Ozanne had resigned from the equalities cabinet a week ago. There is also no lie being perpetuated here, David, sodomy laws in most non Islamic countries are or were based on Christian influences. There is an abundance of evidence that homosexuality was practised in multiple pre Christian/ Islamic civilisations that then was suppressed and persecuted by Christianity and Islam.
The only way you’ll ever get me to walk into a church, David, is to show me one that acknowledges all the hurt Christianity has done to LGBTQ folk throughout history. Why on Earth would I logically choose a religion (only one of 4300 mind) that has persecuted people like me throughout history and still continues to drag back LGBTQ rights globally? Makes no sense
Your replies get more and more bizarre – as well as repetitive and refusing to engage with any of the arguments put forward. So that will be your last post – unless the quality improves. To be honest it just gets boring.
1. There is no evidence whatsoever that homosexuality is entirely biological. You have no interest in science – you just cherry pick the bits that support your presuppositions and ignore or trash the rest. It’s not very scientific.
2. You keep stating things as objective facts – which are entirely your subjective opinion! Yes we can learn to love – its why love in the Bible is an imperative – a command. I agree with you that LGBTQI indoctrination is less prevalent with the elderly. The LGBT brainwashing of children is one of the most disturbing aspects of todays Woke world.
3. Again you state a subjective opinion as objective. ‘love’ can clearly do harm (especially with the definition you have in previous point – where you seem to equate lust and love. Sexual attraction and love. Why do you insist on non-related adults? What ‘objective’ standard and peer reviewed research are you using to say that two consenting adults who are related, who ‘love’ one another (by your standard) are harmful? You are just making it up. Thanks for the link to that article – a classic example of ‘don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up’! I love the reference to Kinsey – one of the most discredited and false pieces of ‘research’ in human history.
4. Again you state that something objectively states – and then go on to say what it doesn’t say – based on your subjective feeling. Your understanding of Romans is bizarre – firstly Paul does not singly out same sex alone – there are at least 20 others sins mentioned. And you would have to be spectacularly illiterate to say that Paul is saying these only about ‘gay’ people. It’s a novel…but so far out reading of it that it only shows just how distorted your hatred has made you. Then later in the book (read it!) he says that all have sinned and the wages of sin is death. You again you use your favourite phrase ‘objective’ to the idea that is impossible to tell who is a Christian and who isn’t. The Bible gives us very clear standards. It’s not that difficult.
5. I now realise that you are commenting on what you have not read – not just the Bible. My article mentions that Ozanne had resigned. That was the reason for the article (and Chalke). You are however right that homosexuality was practiced in Greco/Roman/Pagan societies….as was paecophilia, infanticide, polygamy, sex slavery etc. You really want to go back to that?
I have no intention of getting you to church – my concern is what happens to you when you die. I don’t want you to go to Hell. Note – I’m not saying that because you are gay you are going to Hell – any more than I would say that because someone is heterosexual they go to heaven. All of us who die, rejecting God, and his Word, have chosen our own destiny – to be without Him forever. That is Hell. He sent his Son to die for us so that all who believe in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life. It’s my prayer – that despite our differences you would come to him – and repent and believe. Nothing else ultimately matters.
David
My reading faculties and clarity are perfectly intact; the verses are very clear in their advocation of the death penalty for WSW and MSM. If “Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death” and “They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads” is not a direct affirmation of a death penalty then what is it? It seems you are the only one in denial here…
Jennifer – I recommend you read the whole book of Romans – if you don’t read things in context you just end up reading your pwn prejudices into things. Romans tells us that all of us deserve death – and all of us die. The wages of sin is death – and all are sinners. The Levitical passages are concerned with the civic Mosaic law of ancient Israel – and no longer apply.
Dear David, thanks a lot for your podcasts and reviews. It has been a breath of fresh air to me. Regarding homeosexuals, I think your dealing with this topic has been exemplary. Keeping the faith and not letting anybody of other persuasions phase you, is the way. As you know we must love the person but hate the sin. We simply show love. Nobody at all is perfect regarding sin. And he without sin, let him cast the first stone! We must pray for love and compassion for all of this persuasion and transgenders . This day Christ is risen. Hallelujah! In Christ, Simon from Bavaria.
Respected team and director David Robertson. Greetings to you from India in name of Lord Jesus Christ Our Savior. I am Evangelist and pastor, U.Yesurathnam is writing to you Sir, I came to know about you and your site by reading in EN, news from Uk. So I like to know more and want to follow and receive your good service help and assistance in service of Evaneglism and Gospel and Church here in India so please let me know about your support. and thankingyou Sir, and team in Weeflea.com
Yours Faithfully in Jesus Christ;–.
pastor, U.Yesurathnam. ( Lankavaripet,) at NTR,Colony.
Narsapuram. A,P, West G,Dist.–534275, Pin.India.
Dear Reverend Robertson, I recently read about your interactions with the Scottish police concerning their poster campaign allegedly against ‘hate’. Congratulations on the great and couragoeus work you are doing against the sinister tide of anti-liberal, authoritarianism sweeping the whole of the UK.
I have recently set up the cultural affairs wing of the Institute for Economic Affairs and we are focusing on the free speech issue. I recently interviewed a feminist layer called sarah Phillimore who has been included on a ‘non crime hate incident’ register because of her transgender-critical views. It might be of interest to you. In the Scottish context, I have also interviewed Stuart Waiton from Abertay university on the SNP’s Hate Crime Act which is somewhere in cyberspace.
Anyway, all good wishes for the work you are doing for hugely important principle, Marc Glendening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJs-Rs9fso
Thanks Mark – likewise keep up the good work. I know Stuart – my favourite revolutionary communist! And feel free to call me David
I need get in touch privately with David Roberson – can you pass on my e mail address – thanks
https://www.lassennews.com/why-the-lgbt-community-should-fear-socialism/
Jennifer has much more to fear than Christians today. While I don’t believe there are many who would execute any person, socialism and communism is not so “tolerant”. History can repeat itself.
You are really stupid. Really lacking common sense. I hope God is real purely so people like you can rot in hell for sharing such false, manipulative information. Makes my blood boil. Trash. Religion is just one massive manipulative cult ran by fear-mongering. Glad to be rid of it.
Why are you so bitter and angry? Please feel free to correct any false information. I’m sorry that you are so fearful and filled with such hatred. May God have mercy on you…
I know you’ve covered the sordid Ravi Zacharias / RZIM stuff in the past, but wondered what you made of the profiteering that has just started up again at the “new” OCCA in Oxford
https://www.theocca.org/courses/foundational-apologetics/
Scroll down and see what you make of the price they’re charging!!
£1500 for an online course! Beggars belief!
OCCA , really?
Now talking about Ravi, have you seen this link? https://defendingravi.com/
Its from his son.
Greetings dear brother! I have enjoyed your interviews with janet Parshall on Moody radio and currently have a couple of your books. I made a note a few years back that you were working on a book to be entitled “Letters to a Post-Christian Nation”. It was to be a response to the Sam Harris book “Letters to a Christian Nation”. Whatever became of this projecy? Did you complete it and perhaps I missed it? No pressure if you haven’t completed it…just curious.
Yes – I’m still working on it! Mostly waiting for the right time. Hopefully finish this year…
Dear David, and I feel compelled to write to you from your birth village of Portmahomack and although I won’t go into too much detail on such a public forum, I am very involved with the CofS in the village and you are spot on with the age range, although I think my wife and I bring the average down a considerable amount.
We are currently in the middle of a new presbytery plan that will see the ministers in the Ross area now down to 10 ministers, and only those churches who have enough income able to call a minister, and we have now been without a permanent minister for 3 years.
I am greatly troubled by how things are moving and so wish for prayer and vision to be able to bring more in the area to put Christ at the start and the end of each day as the most important, but running into so many difficult areas, such as a 24/7 lifestyle, parents working 7 days a week, and the change in attitude of the younger generations seemingly to need visual stimulus and not by reading or being taught the Word. I have only just discovered your works and hope you have many more fruitful years of being able to bring ideas and Christs will to people. Thank you for your blog
Stuart – how lovely to hear from you….The Port was not my birth village – but it is where my home is – do you know my mother – Jean? The presbytery plan is sad but typical. I have been warning about the Church of Scotland’s only plan being ‘managed decline’ for the past 25 years! Best way to contact me is b y e-mail….theweeflea@gmail.com
dear mr roberston to be blunt you are right wing reactionary LGBTI trans hating woke bigot who also hates women ministers and does not support doing anything about climate change and very narrow minded like many sydney anglicans who hate women ministers and LGBTI people. I support the school principals in regard statement of belief and I support gay marriage out of civil liberties
Stuart – just simply calling everyone who disagrees with you a bigot – isn’t helpful. Nor is it particularly intelligent. Further its not a good look to lie about people. I do not say we should do nothing about climate change, nor do I hate women ministers or LGBT people. You cannot support the school principals because you do not know what they said (this was an anonymous report). If you wish to comment then it would also help if you spelt my name properly, learned to use punctuation and tried to avoid the prejudice and ignorance in your post.
I like what the sydney morning herald as to say about the sydney anglicans who are very narrow minded about everything
Of course you do – because you have exactly the same kind of ‘open’ mind as the SMH – you consider everyone who does not agree with you as narrow minded – which is itself about as narrow minded as you can get.
you are right wing bigot of the worst type and I am glad we have a progressive labour government to undo years of right wing reactionary government. Most australians trust government institutions parliament public service educations hospitals schools law courts but not neccessarly judges or in parliament politicans. Overseas the United Nations needs our prayers more then ever and the world has not had a major world war since 1945
Why do you need to resort to name calling? I am not right wing (my nickname is ‘Red Robbo’ which should give you a clue!) – are you sure you know what right wing is? Or are you just using the term to abuse? I personally hope that the Labor government will improve educational standards (although I doubt it) – so that people who write at least know how to use commas and capitals! It would also be good if they taught history – there have only ever been two world wars – but war is a continual part of human history – there have been over 100 major wars since 1945 – which the UN has been unable to prevent.. I suggest that before you comment again, you take a deep breath and think about what you are actually posting.
David,
Thank you for your interesting and thought provoking podcast. I just listened to 236
(I listen to them all) and I would like to ask for a more fulsome explanation of your position on the war in Ukraine. You have been very critical of western nations supporting Ukraine. You rightly criticize oppression and loss of liberty all over the world, but somehow not in this case. Surely, those with the means should help Ukrainians defend themselves, not least because if this aggression is successful it will lead to more. You may say that we don’t intervene in all cases, but very often there isn’t the level of clarity as there is in this conflict and the Ukrainians are willing (and able) to do all the fighting if they are given the necessary supplies.
I have been ruminating on this comment for some time, but here is another I would like to make from 236 specifically. I would like to kindly take you to task for commenting on the Tyre Nichols matter if you were not willing to spend 18 minutes watching the video. I did watch it – not from a purulent motive- but from a desire for my opinions to be based in fact. I didn’t find it as shocking as I have been told I should, but weather we agree is less important than commenting on the actual facts rather than third of fourth hand opinions.
Hi Don, Thanks for your helpful comment. To answer your question – I am not opposed to Western nations supporting Ukraine. I AM opposed to Western nations uncritically supporting Ukraine – and most of all to the US fighting a proxy war in Ukraine against Russia. I am also concerned that the unthinking jingoistic warmongering will inevitably lead to escalation and nuclear war.
Re Tyre NIchols. I did comment on the facts. No one denies that a black man was brutally beaten to death by five black police officers. I don’t need to see the video to comment on that. Indeed I personally would regard it as at best unnecessary and at worst voyeuristic to do so. In the same way that I don’t need to watch a video of someone committing adultery in order to comment on the fact that they committed adultery!
Thank you for the reply. We disagree, which I guess I knew before I made the comment.
David, Did you see that Magdalen College Oxford have scrapped their St George’s Day Banquet on 23rd April and replaced it with a Muslim Eid dinner?
Seem to me this is an anti-English and anti-Christian attack.
Neither the President Dinah Rose nor Vice-President Nick Stargardt are Christians.
https://archive.ph/oJbvu
Dear David,
I’ve followed your podcasts for many years. I discovered you on Janet Parshall’s radio show, IN THE MARKET.
I want to send you a book, ENDANGERED VIRTUES written by Christian writer, Michael Phillips. You have a lot in common with him, being a Scotsman! He was the one who, in the 80s had the out-of-print George MacDonald novels published.
This new book by Phillips is one that I think will resinate with you and will help you in your research. It is refreshingly apolitical, but sticks only to the crisis of decaying values in America and indeed, the world.
How can I send this book to you? I can have Amazon deliver, or I can send it from the US.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to send this book to you.
On a side note, in 2019 I took my sisters and 90-year-old mom to Scotland to see Cullen- summer home of Mike and Judy Phillips and setting of MacDonal’s MALCOLM – my favorite book. We planned one Sunday to hear you preach at your church in Dundee, but you had JUST moved to Australia.
Well, it was our loss, but I faithfully listen to your Weeflea and Ask.
Many thanks. Keep up the good work.
Lora
Hi Lora…..thanks….feel free to do so….Can you drop me an e-mail and I will give you my address….theweeflea@gmail.com
David,
Today was my first brush with your work. I enjoyed your exchanges with Jennifer. I look forward to learning more.
Welcome!
Per your article on Taylor Swift and Christianity, you may be interested to know that the Swift family, including Taylor, attended my church in Reading, PA when I was the associate pastor there from 1992-1996. My youngest daughter and Taylor were in the same Sunday School class. And I have posted pictures from our 1996 Vacation Bible School that show all of our children, including Taylor singing and all of the children sitting for a photo. Of course, no one knew or cared that ‘Taylor Swift’ went to a Presbyterian church; she was just another little girl like my own. You can have a look here if you wish: http://onesimusredivivus.blogspot.com/search?q=taylor You look like you are posting some excellent stuff. Keep it up! Bill
Brilliant…thanks so much!